APUG Conference for 2007?

MurrayMinchin · May 8, 2006

How about splitting Earth into thirds vertically through the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans. That gives you;

- North and South America.
- Western and Central Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.
- India, China, Eastern Russia, Japan, Australia and New Zealand.

Why not have a conference from each zone every three years?

Murray

Mark Layne · May 8, 2006

Andy K said:
This is the problem. No matter where the Conference is held, it is not going to be inexpensive and accessible to all. Toronto is a great location, if you live on the same continent. For the rest of us there is the cost of flights, hotels, the extra travelling time off work. I would dearly have loved to attend the Conference, but the above factors made Toronto (for me, I can't speak for others) economically unviable.
Things would have been very different with a European location, say France, Germany's Black Forest, Austria, Switzerland or Norway even (very photogenic place Norway!). All are easily accessible to a great many members.
Unfortunately, for the time being at least, it looks like the Conference will be available only to those on the western side of the Atlantic and those on this side able to justify the expense.

It is likely no more expensive to fly to Toronto than to Europe and hotels are are half the the price of European hotels
Mark

winger · May 8, 2006

One reason I didn't go was because Toronto was so close. But if it were someplace like Bath, I'd be there. I'd just use it as an excuse to take 2 weeks off and see the parts of the UK I missed in 2002. Or go back to the ones I want to see again (like Tintern Abbey). From Boston, I can get anywhere at somewhat reasonable prices. Especially the UK.
Only the people who want to organize it (and can, of which I'm sure there are several people here) can really answer to whether it's feasible in any particular area. But give people a chance to think about it. This whole thread only got started today, right? And if the big APUG conference isn't somewhere else, maybe there can be smaller ones that some of us can use as excuses for vacations.

David A. Goldfarb · May 8, 2006

Here's a map showing where at least 210 active members of APUG live--

Dead Link Removed

I suspect it's a pretty representative sample of the distribution of participants active enough to attend a conference. The numbers in Asia, Africa, Australia and New Zealand are pretty small, but there's quite a respectable European contingent, and Europe is often cheap to get to from the US. The biggest concentration is in the Northeastern US. We talked about Woodstock once, where there is the Center for Photography, which normally runs workshops and has darkrooms and gallery space, and there's plenty of lodging up there.

Bob F. · May 8, 2006

It does seem to me that the key is not just the hard work required to organise everything, difficult as that clearly is. We do have hotels over here, and all the other stuff required. What we do not have, as far as I know, is any active UK based APUGger who has their own commercial gallery/processing/darkroom space. These can all be hired of course, but at a cost, and setting everything up in an unfamiliar environment multiplies all difficulties. So, unless a local UK APUGger can make a definite commitment to provide the basic location facilities in somewhere like London/Manchester/Edinburgh then I suspect that the logistical and financial difficulties may be too great to do all the other stuff too. If someone can provide the basic facilities, then the rest can be done with a reasonable expectation of success.

Actually, I do know of a company near Manchester that does have all the needed facilities (and you are unlikely to run out of film while there (unless you use Kodak or Fuji of course) ) - but even if they could be persuaded, they are a long way from central Manchester, so no drop-in visitors would be likely even if it could be linked to a local arts festival (yes, we do have those too - amazing innit?). It is very close to Manchester airport too...

Aggie's idea of Inversnaid (I think that's where you meant Aggie) is a great location but unfortunately it is 20+ miles north of Glasgow in the middle of nowhere overlooking Loch Lomond. Given the location, it would be a strictly APUG only gathering with no passing visitors.

I agree that given the APUG national mix, the US is probably the least worst location from a travel viewpoint.

But then... Toronto has been such a great success and now possess that most valuable of commodities: experience!

There is the possibility of smaller regional conferences, but would they be able to put on a sufficient show to attract enough people to cover their costs? Perhaps we in the UK could try something based around one of our spring or autumn meetings - making one day a more formal event with guest speaker/demonstration/gallery show etc?

On the question of flights: it costs from GBP350 to fly London/Toronto/London - about the same to most destinations in N. America - east coast a bit cheaper, west coast a bit more, but factoring in all the other costs it's of little practical difference. I can fly to most places in Europe for GBP100 or less.

Decisions, decisions... Whatever the eventual location, here's thanking all those involved in Toronto 2006 and good luck to wherever in 2007!

Cheers, Bob.

Mark Layne · May 8, 2006

Andy K said:
Well to be honest Art, I found your attitude towards holding a conference outside Canada to be condescending and bordering on the insulting. You seem to think we APUG members elsewhere in the world do not merit consideration.

APUG members everywhere in the world merit consideration, but after seeing the organization and facilities required for this conference I'll wager that not one of the people advocating changing the venue in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and organize it.
Mark

Dave Parker · May 8, 2006

Mark Layne said:
APUG members everywhere in the world merit consideration, but after seeing the organization and facilities required for this conference I'll wager that not one of the people advocating changing the venue in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and organize it.
Mark

Thats a big assumption Mark!

Dave

Drew B. · May 8, 2006

david b said:
I'll probably get a lot of shit for this but why not have it before, during or after the PhotoArts week in Santa Fe New Mexico? I believe it runs the odd years in July.

who would want to go to New Mexico in July??? It would be just a touch warm! How about January there?

mark · May 8, 2006

This is getting silly.

How about letting things calm down a bit and then, maybe, Sean or the moderators together can look for voluteers to research it. Everyone getting their noses in a snit because it is not close to them is getting no where, and it won't get anywhere.

I won't be going to any conference as I cannot afford the entrance fees so I have no dog in this at all. The only reason I am responding is this is needlessly causing bad feelings.

Drew B. · May 8, 2006

Uncle Bill said:
Aside from being in my own backyard, I would prefer to keep the APUG conference where it is provided Bob and John are up to it for essentially the reasons outlined previously
1) organization, as a volunteer, I saw the pressure Bob and John are under to make it a first class event, believe this was a first class job and I was honoured to volunteer with this conference. To be held anywhere else, you have to have a first class team in place who can deliver.
2) Location, ok I am biased, Toronto is centrally located and an airline hub so it is reasonably easy to get to from most places in North America and Western Europe. With the European APUG membership, are there any charter carriers that fly to North America cheap? Or book further ahead. We also had access to the best lab complex in town if not the province of Ontario, it was also blessed with gallery space, and boardrooms which help with workshops. Plus as Robert Teague pointed out, the quality of light here is first rate for shooting and tons of material for shooting in and around town.
3)The quality of the team of organizers and volunteers was first rate. The really big if Bob and John want to do this again, I would be happy to volunteer again. I really enjoyed showing fellow APUGer's around town and being part of making this all happen.

so, you're saying there are no other first class venues or first class organizations to put this on?? Let me think of myself also, I want to make a trip to the UK next year....so that seems a great place to have it.

mark · May 8, 2006

Drew B. said:
who would want to go to New Mexico in July??? It would be just a touch warm! How about January there?

New mexico in parts are hot in the summer. Not as bad as toronto in the summer. Been ther suffered that won't do it again. Santa Fe might be around 80 with very little humidity. January would be way too cold.

Just giving geographical clarification.

Drew B. · May 8, 2006

mark said:
New mexico in parts are hot in the summer. Not as bad as toronto in the summer. Been ther suffered that won't do it again. Santa Fe might be around 80 with very little humidity. January would be way too cold.

Just giving geographical clarification.

that's surprising...january too cold!? Well, the only time I leave New England is winter! ...and thats to be warm. I've been frequently in Georgia, Florida, and Louisiana during both summer and winter...and winter is when I want to be south!

Now, other organizations have leaned their lessons, such as Autodesk, who realized that they needed to go to the west coast one year and the east coast the next. They don't get the same people every year, but they are always filled up.

Shinnya · May 8, 2006

Hi,

We can host the conference in two years or so. I need to finish the entire building first though. We will have a gallery, darkroom spaces, class rooms, and a custom lab all in one location in Philadelphia.

Take a look at our new space:

www.projectbasho.org/prp/img/1305g.mov (15MB)

We are working to finish the first phase now, and about to move into it in a month. I hope to finish the rest of space over two years.

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

p.s. I wish I could have been at the conference.

gr82bart · May 8, 2006

t_nunn said:
I would love for someone in the UK to step to the plate and spearhead the effort to hold it there or somewhere else in Europe.

That's what it boils down to doesn't it? Still lots of talk only.

Regards, Art.

gr82bart · May 8, 2006

Shinnya said:
We can host the conference in two years or so. I need to finish the entire building first though. We will have a gallery, darkroom spaces, and class rooms all in one location in Philadelphia.

Hey! This sounds like a fantastic option. Now we're talking viable alternative.

Art.

david b · May 8, 2006

Santa Fe in the July is in the mid 80s during the day and because it is at 7000 feet, cools off to about 60 at night.

It is very pleasant. One of the many reasons APIS and PhotoArts is held then.

gr82bart · May 8, 2006

mark said:
Everyone getting their noses in a snit because it is not close to them is getting no where, and it won't get anywhere.

Agreed. It's not about geography. It's about stepping up to the plate and organizing a professional event with facilities to accommodate this unique conference. Many aren't getting this. It's not just a get together.

Regards, Art.

Shinnya · May 8, 2006

Historically speaking, Philadelphia was a very active city in photography.

We still carry the oldest existing Daguerreotype in the country which was made in 1839. People who do wetplate should be familiar with 19th century photography journal "Philadelphia Photographer." Also, there was the nation's first photography museum in 1940 founded by Louis Walton Sipley...

Bringing the art of Photography back to Philadelphia (again).

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

gr82bart said:
Hey! This sounds like a fantastic option. Now we're talking viable alternative.

photomc · May 8, 2006

Shinnya said:
Historically speaking, Philadelphia was very active city in photography.

...

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

Since I have as much chance of going to Philly as Toronto, why not.....mmmmmm!!! Philly Cheese-steak!!

Sean · May 8, 2006

I think everyone should remain calm over this and see what develops. Is anyone else really going to step up to the plate and offer a better scenario than what we just had? If they do then the real discussion can begin..

Dave Parker · May 8, 2006

This conversation has been about a different venue so the maximum amount of people over a period of time could participate.

One day after the conference is over, I would not expect to nail an exact address down on where it could or should be held,the professor in charge of the art dept here locally at the community college has a commanding position with darkrooms, conference rooms and such at his disposal, and asked about it as he has been displaying the Apug conference poster in his classes since John sent them to me, that is not what the discussion was about, the discussion was about where next year to possibly give other members of the system and the traffic to attend the 2nd annual Apug conference.

Mine as others point was and has been there are viable areas around the globe that could host an event of this nature.

I would expect, every single person who attended this years event, the be quite satisfied with the venue, after all, they have not attended another Apug conference and the only venue that comes to mind is of course, Toronto! The View Camera weekend does not even compare...of course that is based on observations and also comments.

Also, I am not thinking about a gathering, friends have gatherings, companies have meetings, this is real people putting real money out of their own pockets to attend, but I think that the disscussion needs to be brought up, especially if a 2007 event is to be held, these things take a while to put together..if the venue is Toronto, then so be it, but I feel with the largest worldwide base of traditional photographers around, that other venues with different shooting opportunities and facilities would be appealing..if I had attended this years event and knew it was going to again be in the same venue, I know for a fact, I would not attend again....

Not a Snit as some like to call it, but a real world thoughts on next years event..

Dave

frugal · May 8, 2006

I'll admit that I'm new to APUG but it sounds like a lot of people who weren't there are coming up with opinions as to where the next one could be held with little understanding of what the facilities that Bob offered were like.

Yes, any city of a decent size will have hotels with conference facilities. There's also probably tons of places that could offer darkroom facilities either through a lab or a local school. However, what I don't think a lot of people are realising is that Elevator was able to offer conference space, darkrooms and a gallery all in the same space. My only complaint about the location would be the distance from the hotel which could be addressed by co-ordinating some better transportation. I solved that problem for myself with a minimal amount of effort.

I don't think that Art is against the conference being somewhere else, I think he just wants to make sure that people understand all of the logistics and that if people are going to post suggestions, we need more than just, "hey, let's hold it in x."

I'll use my city, Halifax, as an example of some of the issues. The art college has darkroom facilities that can accommodate groups and has classrooms as well. They also have a gallery that could handle a lot of prints. Plus, there are several hotels in the area (one is less than a block away) and the school is a couple of blocks from the downtown waterfront.

Sounds great doesn't it? Now let's look at some issues. Parking is virtually non-existant anywhere near the school. There's no convenient area near the school's photo department where vendors could set up. The school is a maze, which makes it difficult for people to get around and find stuff. There's no other photography events or similar that could be tied into to help bring more of the public out. It would require a lot of work co-ordinating with the school to even be allowed to do this let alone pull it off. On-site film processing would be limited to what you can do on your own (and no colour processing on-site).

I could go on even more but I think you get the point. Are all of these issues deal breakers? Not necessarily, but they need to be looked at and addressed. The school is the process of building another campus and some stuff will get rearranged, maybe after that's completed that will solve some of what I've outlined above and then I can make a formal "bid" for Halifax to host a future APUG conference. For the moment though, it would take a massive amount of work to address these additional issues, beyond the regular work that needs to be put in for the conference.

Aggie · May 9, 2006

Ok I talked to one of the local teachers of photography here at the college in St. George Utah. They could handle a conference there. It has plenty of parking if it is after the spring term ends. It is easy to get around the town. There is plenty of places (motels/hotels/B&B's) The college has a gallery, class room space and such. There are some really good resturants (and bad ones) in town. We are 90 minutes north of Las Vegas. Day rips could take you to Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon, North rim of the Grand Canyon, Lake Powell, Red Rock State Park, Two resevoirs, Lake Mead, Valley of fire, and more. There are ghost towns nearby, And I could probably talk Fred Adams into letting us have some models (actors/actresses) in full Shakespearan costum for shoots. One major problem with all of it is, I'm one person here. Sure I can wrangle my neighbors into helping, but I could not do what Bob or John did. I know there are plenty of Utah apuggers that might also pitch in, but I don't want the responsibility of it all.

It takes someone willing to commit to handle it all. It takes more than one person it takes teamwork, It also takes just saying ok I'll do it and go for it. That is what Bob did, and he is to be commended for all the hard work and results of those efforts. It's not easy, but it is doable.

johnnywalker · May 9, 2006

Mark Layne said:
APUG members everywhere in the world merit consideration, but after seeing the organization and facilities required for this conference I'll wager that not one of the people advocating changing the venue in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and organize it.
Mark

It is possible to have a discussion regarding good places to hold the next conference without demanding someone start immediately organising it!

Cheryl Jacobs · May 9, 2006

Just my thoughts....

It would be great to go about this in a more orderly, fact-based, practical way. Of course everyone is hoping either to 1) have the conference in his/her backyard, or 2) have the conference in an exotic, attractive destination. While your backyard may be a great place for the conference, the likelihood is that nobody knows that but you.

It would be significantly easier for the powers that be (one of which I am thankfully not; nobody needs me trying to organize anything!) to see actual, lined out "proposals", for lack of a better word. Those who have ideas as to the location for the next conference could take the initiative to investigate and document preliminary qualifications, such as:

- accessibility to the city
- ease of transportation during the conference, including public transport, shuttles, etc
- venue size, suitability, cost, and availability
- accessibility and convenience for potential sponsors
- costs of airfare, accommodations, meals, in-city transportation. I can find fantastic airfares to London -- I paid only $525US round trip in March -- but the hotels and other costs were outrageous as ever.
- other major events planned in the city that could cause issues with hotel availability (this was a big issue for some of us at this conference)
- parking and traffic control
- availability of eateries within walking distance
- availability of a large contingent of very dedicated local volunteers and leadership during the full year leading up to the conference, as well as during the conference itself
- potential show-stoppers in terms of weather, i.e. Florida in hurricane season, as well as
- comfort considerations. St. George is a beautiful place, but catch it during the summer at 110 degrees, and you may have some APUGers out of commission. I speak from personal experience there!

If the answers to those and other considerations could be looked into at a 10,000 foot view, put on paper, and submitted by a determined date, it would be far easier to get an idea of not only where it's possible to hold a conference, but also who is dedicated and motivated enough to make that initial effort.

Think of it as making a bid for the Olympics. I guarantee that for Bob, John, and their able army of volunteers, it felt very much that way.

Again, just my thoughts.

-- CJ

APUG Conference for 2007?

MurrayMinchin

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Mark Layne

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mark

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mark

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Shinnya

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gr82bart

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Shinnya

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frugal

Aggie

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