APUG book

removed account4 · Jul 26, 2014

Bill Burk said:
I think 2 pictures isn't enough, and the upload to galleries quality is too low for print.

I'd also like to see some writing.

i agree, but getting people to agree to anything, isnt ez ...
and ... having people who really arent equipt to do prepress or ps editing on their work and have it look stellar
or stellar enough to be represented in a book will be difficult...

TheFlyingCamera · Jul 26, 2014

To make the images work for the book, you'd have to have one person volunteer to be the POC for the process and every participant would have to mail a print no bigger than 8x10 to that person, and then they would scan the prints and mail them back. If the prints are not sent to that person with return postage, they are not returned. That person would have to be someone with outstanding qualifications for operating the scanner to get scans to match prints to match repros in the book. Otherwise, you'll have people submitting electrons that will be out of spec and unacceptable, and the book will look half-assed because the quality will be too inconsistent.

Eric Rose · Jul 27, 2014

This project will never happen within APUG. A private endeavor run along the lines of a photo competition format with entry fees etc. is probably the only viable solution. If people want to participate they can sign up, pay their fee and submit images. If a person doesn't like the format or the fee they don't have to submit. Plain and simple.

removed account4 · Jul 27, 2014

along the lines of what you and scott said i think is it ..
although you dont need a bigger than 8x10 for a scan,
even then it might not be a good print that is being scanned ...
it will be endless toil for the volunteer worth every penny
of the profits that should probably be sent to him / her for the 100-500
hours spent scanning and photoshop post production work
and endless tweaking and everything else to make the book
look good. after all this is a hobbyist site where people love to
endlessly chat about gear and philosophical stuff, and good ps or printing or
exposures are really not a requirement ...

seems like a great idea, an apug book, but like an onion being peeled ...
the more it is peeled the more problems / issues and "liver crisis's"
will be revealed//
there are other companies that i mentioned in the original thread
that will print an amazon ready, isbn # ready & provided book
whose quality is like a text book and prices are not too bad.
( the link i provided is the back door to a well known billions of books printed in their library publisher )

cliveh · Jul 27, 2014

Eric Rose said:
This project will never happen within APUG.

It could happen with one person with enough tenacity to make it happen.

removed account4 · Jul 27, 2014

i guess so clive ... but the planets have to be aligned just right.

polyglot · Jul 27, 2014

lol if I do this, there's no way I'm scanning people's prints or chromes. Submissions would need to be digital and those who don't have the facilities to produce a high quality digitised copy of their images would miss out. Such is life on the modern internet.

Dealing with physical submissions is such an incredible minefield that I cannot imagine going there. Risk of damage, quantity of work, people disagreeing with the scan results, etc, etc - it would be insane. There is very good reason the world moved to digital pre-press.

Barry S · Jul 27, 2014

As someone who's done a lot of arts administration work, I recommend keeping this project as simple as possible. There's no need to attempt to produce a "definitive" APUG book. At the heart, this is a curatorial project and I suggest one or two people handle the curation and mechanics of submissions and compilation. The main ingredient is someone with a passion to curate a cool and beautiful book with APUG photography. Add a little technical expertise, and a healthy bit of grunt work. There's more than enough information to review on the previous thread and make a decision how to proceed.

cliveh · Feb 22, 2015

Is there any news about getting an APUG book off the ground, whether it be digital or hard copy? What is required to make it happen?

hoffy · Feb 22, 2015

You need to find some unicorn tears, then it might happen.

I'd suggest you do a quick search, read the various threads and then decide if you think its worth while.....

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 22, 2015

Clive, you started a 5-page thread on this last July, no?

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 22, 2015

I'm sorry, I mean 9-page: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 22, 2015

Here's the whopping 30+ page one where it seemed promising in 2011 then died off by 2013: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

David A. Goldfarb · Feb 22, 2015

Two threads merged. I've left the thread from 2011 as is, since it's referenced in the first post of this thread.

I would advise anyone interested in replying to this thread to read the previous 40-odd pages of discussion in this and the other thread, and consider whether you have anything new to add to the discussion.

RalphLambrecht · Feb 23, 2015

cliveh said:
Any news on the APUG book, perhaps on an annual basis? I know this was mooted some years ago, but does APUG have the organisation to make this happen? With so many members and photographic experts it should be possible. Can any suggest how this may become a reality.

[Moderator's note: Previous discussion here-- (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

if you are just thiking of a prnted version of all APUGnotes, it's certainly podssible,even as a pdf to print yourself

removed account4 · Feb 23, 2015

clive

as you might have seen from the original thread joel ( guitstik ) started there have been several problems with having an apug-book:
one problem is some people want it to be curated, meaning the best of the best;
other people want a guest curator, who might have an interest ( his or her own portfolio's type of work ) and nothing else would be considered for publication;
do you only let subscribers submit? do people who are "members" but active posters ( not subscribers ) or anyone submit, how do you draw the line?
how should it be published? ( some people have a true dislike for POD/LULU/BLURP type books ) ... should they be sold at a profit to benefit the site or at cost?

years ago fraction magazine ( which was started by an appugger ) had an apug-edition where he had a thread where people posted and he curated a show in his magazine.

i have a feeling that if there was to be an apug-book it would have to be done like that ( guest curator ) because it seems like it would be much easier than having
a thread where anyone and everyone submits 4 photos to, and a troika or gang of 4 or 5 decides what will be in it ... from conversations i have had
with people who had done POP books often ... the sweet spot is about 80 pages ...

RobC · Feb 23, 2015

Seems to be a lot posturing going on and waiting for a volunteer to put their head on the block. If anyone was really serious about doing it why haven't they and what are they waiting for?

One piece of advice I would give is to make sure you make it plain in the terms of being included that there is no reward for published submittals otherwise you will be into a real barrel of worms managing the post publishing payments.

I expect only those whose entries are published will buy it so the return would be insignificant anyway.

And no I'm not submitting prints or volunteering to do it. It needs someone with the will to see it through and who prepared to take all the negative crap that will be thrown at them for not doing it the way the whiners want it done.

Richard S. (rich815) · Feb 23, 2015

RobC said:
I expect only those whose entries are published will buy it....

Exactly. Vanity publishing recipe with 40-50 cooks in the kitchen. But at least without the schlocky cheesy company pretending we've been selected for a slot in their next "Best of..." photography book that we can have for the low low price of $85 plus $20 S&H...

removed account4 · Feb 23, 2015

robC

i don't think it is a lot of posturing .. but a huge task.
and one with a ton of problems .. not only bruised egos
but having to color correct images to fit the profile of
the printer, which might upset the image's creator if it
didn't end up looking exactly as submitted ( and appearing on his/her monitor ) ...

sounds like a nightmare to me ...

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 23, 2015

RobC said:
Seems to be a lot posturing going on and waiting for a volunteer to put their head on the block. If anyone was really serious about doing it why haven't they and what are they waiting for?

One piece of advice I would give is to make sure you make it plain in the terms of being included that there is no reward for published submittals otherwise you will be into a real barrel of worms managing the post publishing payments.

I expect only those whose entries are published will buy it so the return would be insignificant anyway.

And no I'm not submitting prints or volunteering to do it. It needs someone with the will to see it through and who prepared to take all the negative crap that will be thrown at them for not doing it the way the whiners want it done.

There was a lot more work done on making the book happen than you're privy to. I was one of the organizers of the last effort. Long story short it fell apart at the point of how to collect and edit the submissions. The sticking point was absolutely the moment where ego-bruising was going to come into play. All of us knew it would happen no matter what path we took - but we couldn't reach consensus on which path to take. I think we could have reached consensus but one or two folks who held minority opinions started taking an "if it's not MY way, I won't support it" approach. There was also the concern that some folks who we would have wanted to participate would have refused to have their work shown alongside garden-variety nudes and pictures of cats, and the photographers of sub-par nudes and out-of-focus, poorly printed pictures of cats would have gotten butt-hurt on an epic scale if we excluded them.

It's a noble idea but without it being logistically discrete from APUG there's no good way to make it work.

RobC · Feb 23, 2015

I really don't understand why if people want their work in a POD book they don't do their own. Its not that difficult and only requires the will to do it. It can take as long they want and can be organised exactly how they want.

If someone wants to do a community book then it should be 100% up to them how they do it and what the terms are.

If people were sensible they would limit it and maybe say I'm going to do a B+W Landscapes only book. Someone else could do a Colour Abstracts only book and someone could do a nudes book if thats their thing, etc etc. There doesn't need to be only ONE book.
This way you will remove most if not all of the arguments so that it only takes one person with a specific interest in one area to set the rules for the book they want to do and just do it.
If anyone whines they've been excluded then tell them to get off their arse and do a book for their own particular genre.
Is it really so difficult?

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 23, 2015

Too many fry cooks in the kitchen who thought they were celebrity chefs...

Best to just let this sleeping dog lie and move on. It's not that there isn't anything here to see. It's that there are only ugly things here to see.

Better to just start another film versus digital thread. Everyone can deal with those pretty sanely by comparison.

Ken

cliveh · Feb 23, 2015

I think we should take up polyglot's kind offer to make the book and we all do what he says. He doesn't like me so I probably will not be included, but it would get the project off the ground.

removed account4 · Feb 23, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
That's pretty snotty and pathetic, I have to say. I'm no fan of cat pictures, but in the end we are all glorified hobbyists here. We can take the art and craft as seriously as we want, and that's a good thing, but anyone here who'd otherwise want to submit work but outright refuse to have their precious gems shown along side something "lesser" (?), well, stick it. Might as well call yourself a "master" while you're at it.

i don't remember people not wanting to show work next to "lesser works" but
what i remember ...
it was feared that the celeb.photographer who was going to "curate" the book
was going to be bias towards landscape work and people worried there would be nothing else in the book.
THAT and it was going to be printed in china and cost a king's ransom to purchase ...

TheFlyingCamera · Feb 23, 2015

Michael R 1974 said:
That's pretty snotty and pathetic, I have to say. I'm no fan of cat pictures, but in the end we are all glorified hobbyists here. We can take the art and craft as seriously as we want, and that's a good thing, but anyone here who'd otherwise want to submit work but outright refuse to have their precious gems shown along side something "lesser" (?), well, stick it. Might as well call yourself a "master" while you're at it.

It was largely a hypothetical. Perhaps an exaggerated example - there was just an awareness that some egos would pitch hissy fits and withdraw or refuse to participate if certain others were involved, or if "lesser" works were included. And there was never any consensus on asking a certain famous photographer to curate/jury the book - said entity injected themself into the discussion by offering to produce the physical volume, but then demanded creative control. Regardless of the criteria applied to subject matter, the book would NOT have been reflective of APUG in cross-section.

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