Apple iPhone 4 is like a Leica

Factory conditions are a spectrum. The ones in question are worse than many in the first world, and should be improved. They're also better than nearly any others in "developing" nations, so singling them out is an exercise in disingenuousness, to put it mildly.

"They're also better than nearly any others in "developing" nations, so singling them out is an exercise in disingenuousness, to put it mildly."

But we're talking China and factories there that make products for Apple. That there are worse evils is supposed to be consoling? Don't share your coziness with hypocrisy and self-justification.

CGW said:

"They're also better than nearly any others in "developing" nations, so singling them out is an exercise in disingenuousness, to put it mildly."

But we're talking China and factories there that make products for Apple. That there are worse evils is supposed to be consoling? Don't share your coziness with hypocrisy and self-justification.

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Do you buy any products manufactured in developing nations? Do you eat any food that comes from factory farms, or those that take advantage of migrants? Etc, etc.

I'm not talking about self-justification. I'm talking about perspective. That there are worse is not a justification; it is evidence that people focused on this one have a sick and hypocritical agenda that has nothing to do with the lives involved.

heck with the workers... just give me my toys!!

Yeah I want my toys, but we also have to think, if the developed world invest in the developing then this can be a good thing it's not perfect and it takes time but over time working conditions improve because of the morals of the people buying products, the companies know this and want to look good, so over time I hope things can get better for everyone.

Steve Smith said:

I don't have one either. I can't see the point.


Steve.

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I think the greatest benefit of cell phones is to students who want to text during classes and ignore the teacher.

zumbido said:

Factory conditions are a spectrum. The ones in question are worse than many in the first world, and should be improved. They're also better than nearly any others in "developing" nations, so singling them out is an exercise in disingenuousness, to put it mildly.

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Yes, the conditons vary, but that it's not that the western nations are better or anything. The harsh conditions do exist.

For instance, think about chinese-run textile factories or restaurants in Chinatown in NYC. The same. Or I give you an example about the Japanese factories in Japan hiring many many Chinese workers way below the minimum wage for the labor for long damn hours, which is rather institutional and is a serious human rights violation. There have been suicides, homicides, and protests there as well because they are shit-holes.

So, I'm saying, these places are everywhere, the colonial type of exploitation exists, but many of us do not know or don't even care what these places really are inside and so on.

CGW said:

Hmmm. I don't recall Leica workers killing themselves due to stress and low pay. What about recent reports of suicides among workers at the Shenzhen Hon Hai Precision Industry-owned Foxconn Technology plants--a major maker of Apple products like the iPhone and iPad. So much for Apple chic...

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I'm sick of seeing people sit on their keyboards arguing about sweatshops while they type on their sweatshop-made keyboard, sitting in a sweatshop-made chair.
It reminds of junior high, when kids just begin to become "socially aware" and feel they need to find themselves "a cause to fight for".
Guess what? Every developed country has been through hardships too. Are you going to go back in time to save people from having to work the fields for 16 hours a day? China is moving towards First-World country status, and within this process it has to go through many shifts and changes, let them find their own way.
Western activists are like overbearing parents who micromanage every aspect of their children's lives. With one crucial difference: they don't have the right to do that.

apconan said:

I'm sick of seeing people sit on their keyboards arguing about sweatshops while they type on their sweatshop-made keyboard, sitting in a sweatshop-made chair.
It reminds of junior high, when kids just begin to become "socially aware" and feel they need to find themselves "a cause to fight for".
Guess what? Every developed country has been through hardships too. Are you going to go back in time to save people from having to work the fields for 16 hours a day? China is moving towards First-World country status, and within this process it has to go through many shifts and changes, let them find their own way.
Western activists are like overbearing parents who micromanage every aspect of their children's lives. With one crucial difference: they don't have the right to do that.

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Touché

And what are we doing here, that´s so different from the kids sms´ing each other?

apconan said:

I'm sick of seeing people sit on their keyboards arguing about sweatshops while they type on their sweatshop-made keyboard, sitting in a sweatshop-made chair.

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The real problem is, factories like this one in the topic are not like typical sweatshops even though they technically are, because they are kept secret and/or sugar-coated with misinformation about how the workers from the developing countries should be treated, etc.

There are a lot of lawsuits for this matter, and in many cases, the workers win. Just be aware of that.

firecracker said:

Yes, the conditons vary, but that it's not that the western nations are better or anything. The harsh conditions do exist.

For instance, think about chinese-run textile factories or restaurants in Chinatown in NYC. The same. Or I give you an example about the Japanese factories in Japan hiring many many Chinese workers way below the minimum wage for the labor for long damn hours, which is rather institutional and is a serious human rights violation. There have been suicides, homicides, and protests there as well because they are shit-holes.

So, I'm saying, these places are everywhere, the colonial type of exploitation exists, but many of us do not know or don't even care what these places really are inside and so on.

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Wouldn't Rand Paul just think of this as the free markets working their magic? He seems to believe that no government is the best government.

Mainecoonmaniac said:

However, a Leica won't be obsolete in 5 years.

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5 years? More like 6 months.

What's the cellphone equivalent of a FED2? Whatever it is, I want one.

Matthew Rusbarsky said:

What's the cellphone equivalent of a FED2? Whatever it is, I want one.

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Two cans and a string?

~

I just wonder if I can affix bellows to my blackberry and do tilts and shifts...

Shaggysk8 said:

...Why do so many people hate apple? Normally it's from the people that don't use their stuff either I really don't get it. I sort of think you don't like it don't buy it...

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"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian."

Apple's famous Superbowl ad told viewers to rebel against Big Brother by buying Apple computers. Now, Apple is the one who tells us how to use their products, where to use them, and even how to hold them! Apple even busted down some doors trying to catch the "prototype theif".

It is surprising how often a person or company gains its reputation by "fighting the man" and denouncing the current "system", only to eventually win and then become "the man" or a part of the "evil empire" they so adamently oppose. This is what happened to Apple, and it even happend to the Red Sox.

This is why a lot of people don't like Apple and their products. That and the fact that their computers don't work with many mainstream software programs (I can't comprehend why teachers love Macs). Apple computers are pretty much irrelevent now that PCs caught up to the digital film editing software. iPods and iPhones are what makes Apple, and even the iPhone has its critics due to its application restrictions and unaccessible software.

With all that said, I have always wanted an iPod or iPhone, but never could bring myself to shell out the big bucks for it. Fortunately this has helped since I didn't get a product that had some bugs in it, or be disappointed when the newer and improved version came out the next year. I might finally buy an iPhone 4 now though because I can't stand standard radio in my car for weekely long drives, and dont want to bother with a bunch of CDs. I am glad they offered a $15 data plan since I would be a light data user, more WiFi based.

Do you work in the creative industry, as my experience is PC will never gain a hold on that market, we would never buy PCs to work on as they are unreliable, cost is not really an issue just when I am working it needs to work, macs are stable, very very stable and all the main stream software is available that we use.

Saying that I am writing this on a pointless iPad, so one might say I am an apple geek and have no idea what I am talking about and just blinded by the man, but hey least I can do it 100% of the time, even if it does cost me twice as much to do so.

Maybe you are right and PCs will never gain a foothold in the image processing industry. My point here is that earlier quotes of 7% of the computer market is even smaller considering Apple no longer has technological corner on film editing. I do not work in the creative industry, although I was a member of my college film club abd had several film student friends who used Macs and their digital film editing software. Currently I am hearing that PCs and the PC version of the software is killing them on prices, making it much more appealing. Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say something like:

"independent film makers, small busisnesses, students, people new to the industry, and people who are not already heavily invested in Apple and their software are finding that the premium for Apple is only for their sleek logo, and less and less for their performance etc."

I agree that Apple is tailor made for image processing and film editing, however I think you can do it just as well on a PC, now that they have caught up, and do it for a little bit less money. However, just like anything, that doesnt apply to each consumer, especially not those who are already invested with Apple or those power uses who can afford to pay significantly more money for a small increase in performance because their jobs require it.

I have always used PCs at home and for work, and have never had major issues that so many people blast them for. The biggest problem I had was with a virus, and in the end a simple re-install allowed me to both save my critical files and completely re-install windows and get rid of the problem. If my custom build PC at home burst into flames and melted into a lump of aluminum, I could buy all new, better components and build an entire system for the same price as the first one, and still come out ahead of one expensive Mac. I know this does nothing for the lost time, files and work, but there are backup systems for these kind of things that I am sure you would use regardless if you are on a PC or a Mac. I think that the reliability of PC vs. Mac is becoming more and more like the reliability of Ford vs. Toyota (not alluding to the recalls). The reputation of Toyota is why people are buying Toyotas, despite the fact the Ford's reliability and quality is probably equal to Toyota now.

stewmander said:

I agree that Apple is tailor made for image processing and film editing, however I think you can do it just as well on a PC, now that they have caught up, and do it for a little bit less money.

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We all have personal preferences for different 'formats' - photography is a great example ;-) As a graphic designer and media trainer I can only give my personal opinion, and after using both platforms extensively I believe Apple is superior. No ifs or buts. More stable, better integrated colour management, more streamlined and efficient. Sorry but I don't believe the PC has "caught up". That said, it's a niche market and Microsoft can happily take the 90% of computers only concerned with running Office.

stewmander said:

I have always used PCs at home and for work, and have never had major issues that so many people blast them for. The biggest problem I had was with a virus, and in the end a simple re-install allowed me to both save my critical files and completely re-install windows and get rid of the problem.

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Well, see, viruses are one of the major issues people blast them for.

I use Linux, you see (to answer an earlier question -- what's the equivalent of a FED? Maybe Linux -- although maybe it's more like a homebuilt 8x10 view camera that takes giant rollfilm unavailable anywhere), and never have to reinstall, use a virus scanner, or even a firewall, deal with adware or malware or anything.

I gather Macs are similar these days, given that they're basically a pretty wrapper around a Unix core. Not a fan of their attitude and market practices though (App Store, etc.).