Apparently we are dazed and confused

bascom49 · Jan 8, 2013

http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00bCam

Check out the sixth post.

Charles

Helinophoto · Jan 8, 2013

bascom49 · Jan 8, 2013

The perspective is simply humorous, nothing less, nothing more.

tkamiya · Jan 8, 2013

desertratt said:
There are a lot of opinions in this world inclouding that the world is flat,

IT ISN'T? :confused:

MartinP · Jan 8, 2013

I've been to North Holland. It is rather flat actually.

tkamiya · Jan 8, 2013

Yeah, Florida is pretty flat, too. We have a bunch of holes though.... we call'em lakes.

bdial · Jan 8, 2013

Florida is pretty flat, but is it flatter than a pancake?
http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html

removed account4 · Jan 8, 2013

bdial said:
Florida is pretty flat, but is it flatter than a pancake?
http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i3/kansas.html

marc is a funny guy

we used to do performance art during his iGnobel awards ceremonies back in the day.
at one of the shindigs, my friend's kid was stuck in a broom closet with a woman who had the highest recorded iq ...
when she left the broomcloset, she ate soup on stage, the whole ceremony ...
( i was cloned on one of his magazines )

pentaxuser · Jan 8, 2013

If the post to which you refer is the one I think it is where there is a reference to APUG then the poster makes two points and both could be regarded as reasonable

1. How much evidence is there that the drop in film demand has been reversed?

2. You will get a lot of processing of film at a lab for what the new Jobo processor will cost

OK the poster could be said to be tarring the whole of APUG with the same brush and his use of certain words such as delusional is provocative but had he simply said that he knows of no evidence that points to a film revival and anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves or is guilty of wishful thinking then I fear he may be right in that assertion.

It's a pity but that is probably the way things are

pentaxuser

Ken Nadvornick · Jan 8, 2013

Maybe best to just let sleeping dogs lie on this one...

Ken

lxdude · Jan 8, 2013

The choice of words and attitude look awfully familiar... looks to me like a certain three letter dude on "restricted access" here...

lxdude · Jan 8, 2013

Ken Nadvornick said:
Maybe best to just let sleeping dogs lie on this one...

Ken

Get enough to lie on it and maybe they'll smother it!

removed account4 · Jan 8, 2013

he's not tarring anything, he's just suggesting that
a lot of people on apug aren't really living
in his reality, where that film use is
dwindling, and film processing will become
a niche market, and it isn't really worth spending $$
on a piece of processing equipment that might not pay for itself.

if you talk to other people in the photo lab industry you might hear the same
sort of point of view from many of them. there are some labs that are doing very well
but the lab industry, pro labs, mini labs &c have been closing their doors consistently
for the past 10 years. the poster at pnet didn't really mince his words ...

CatLABS · Jan 8, 2013

pentaxuser said:
If the post to which you refer is the one I think it is where there is a reference to APUG then the poster makes two points and both could be regarded as reasonable

1. How much evidence is there that the drop in film demand has been reversed?

2. You will get a lot of processing of film at a lab for what the new Jobo processor will cost

OK the poster could be said to be tarring the whole of APUG with the same brush and his use of certain words such as delusional is provocative but had he simply said that he knows of no evidence that points to a film revival and anyone thinking otherwise is kidding themselves or is guilty of wishful thinking then I fear he may be right in that assertion.

It's a pity but that is probably the way things are

pentaxuser

Here is some contradicting info from the real world:
http://www.professionalphotographer...eased-sales-Ilford-s-belief-in-print-pays-off

Also, some google searches will produce a fairly long interview with Kodak CEO right after the chapter 11 filing, where he notes that the film division at Kodak, is one of only 4 profitable operations the company has, and he talks about the rise in sales to specialty markets.

Lomo is another example of phenomenal marketing capability, but they are selling more film (made by fuji, adox and kodak) than all three companies combined.

Firstcall in the UK is coming out with a 1GBP a roll C-41 10 roll kit made in the EU, which is a wholly brand new product, aimed a specific market segment, which apparently, is alive and well.

Either way - from where i am sitting it seems as though not all is lost after all, and more then that - stuff is getting better, its getting better all the time .

eddie · Jan 8, 2013

pentaxuser said:
1. How much evidence is there that the drop in film demand has been reversed?

2. You will get a lot of processing of film at a lab for what the new Jobo processor will cost

I can't respond to No.1 with any statistical proof, although there does seem to be more interest in film than there was about a decade ago. Whether it translates into more film use, I can't say... My less than scientific survey among a few friends would lead one to believe that it is. I have a few friends who shoot digital professionally (portraits/weddings) who have just renewed their interest in film. Two are women, who would use my darkroom regularly up to about 5 years ago. In the last 2 months, I've heard from both of them, asking to return. One borrowed some film for a trip, and has decided not to work with digital anymore.

As for No.2, the poster claimed he could get 700 rolls of 120 B/W lab processed for the same $3500. Fair enough... $5/roll seems reasonable. However, it probably costs about a buck per roll in the Jobo, so there is savings to be had. Saving $4 per roll over the course of 700 rolls brings the cost of the Jobo down to $700. Not too bad if viewed from this perspective.
If you shoot color,or large format, the lab costs are higher, and potential savings are greater.

There are other reasons for considering the Jobo. Labs are moving away from film processing. If you're in a major metropolitan area, you probably still have a local option. For others, though, film must be sent away, adding postage and turnaround time (which would bring the cost of the Jobo down even more. Assuming the postage costs are $2/roll, those 700 rolls could actually make the Jobo cheaper than a lab.

Finally, the Jobo gives you complete control of your work. Choose whatever developer you want, alter times/temps/etc.

$3500 doesn't seem like an awful lot to me, assuming one is planning to shoot film regularly far into the future.

CatLABS · Jan 8, 2013

You should be posting this at Pnet...

eddie said:
There are other reasons for considering the Jobo. Labs are moving away from film processing. If you're in a major metropolitan area, you probably still have a local option. For others, though, film must be sent away, adding postage and turnaround time (which would bring the cost of the Jobo down even more. Assuming the postage costs are $2/roll, those 700 rolls could actually make the Jobo cheaper than a lab.

Could not agree more with this statement - mostly because most of our local Pro labs offer poor results in comparison to anything you get from a Jobo processor -

eddie said:
Finally, the Jobo gives you complete control of your work. Choose whatever developer you want, alter times/temps/etc.

eddie said:

$3500 doesn't seem like an awful lot to me, assuming one is planning to shoot film regularly far into the future.

Click to expand...

700 rolls is far into the future? that should be about 3-4 days considering you shoot 8GB worth of photos when they are free... . But really, how long does it take any film shooter to go through several hundred rolls\plates?

eddie · Jan 8, 2013

CatLABS said:
700 rolls is far into the future? that should be about 3-4 days considering you shoot 8GB worth of photos when they are free... . But really, how long does it take any film shooter to go through several hundred rolls\plates?

I was referring to how long the Jobo will last. My ATL2 (which just conked out a few months ago) was about 15-20 years old, I think. It went from daily studio use to years of storage before a friend sold it to me. I got about 3 years use before it recently stopped rotating. One of these days I'll get it fixed.
PS- Wish I were handier, or you were closer...

CatLABS · Jan 8, 2013

Eddie,

Sorry to hear about your ATL2, those are complex machines which are getting old these days.
If you contact us directly we might be able to find a service station closer to you, or arrange for low cost freight for your machine to us and back.

The new CPP3 should be even more reliable (then the CPP2 and CPA2) with less moving parts, no breakable knobs and switches and a few other life lengthening features.

As we always say - a Jobo machine will last pretty much forever as long as you treat it right

removed account4 · Jan 8, 2013

But really, how long does it take any film shooter to go through several hundred rolls\plates?

i have shot that many rolls + sheets in a few weeks maybe a month ...
its really not hard ..

CatLABS · Jan 8, 2013

jnanian said:
i have shot that many rolls + sheets in a few weeks maybe a month ...
its really not hard ..

+1

tkamiya · Jan 8, 2013

Well.... if I analyze any of my hobby in terms of throughput and ROI (return on investment), all of them are in pretty sad shape. So what if I made some prints I believe are absolutely amazing? No one will buy them and for that, the absolute dollar value is zero. So the whole thing is a big waste of time and money. I might as well do absolutely nothing, drink some plain water and come infinitely ahead.

Let's not forget the fun factor and enjoyment of obtaining new gear and using them in our hobby. Although I don't do Jobo and I have no plan of getting one, I think it's absolutely neat that they are available again. Film may be declining or coming back, but personally, I really don't care. They are available. I plan to shoot and enjoy them as long as they are available.

At the end of MY day, that's what I care. I can get what I want, I have what I want, and I enjoyed my day.
THANK YOU!

munz6869 · Jan 8, 2013

If you enjoy processing film, and don't mind buying equipment for your art/hobby/folly, then the price compares reasonably to many things (a new Canon 5d Mk III body, a flying/boating/horse-riding habit, vehicle restoration, etc etc.). I love my ancient Jobo, and it's so handy I'd probably save up for a new one if/when it dies or if I can't repair the thing.

Marc!

EASmithV · Jan 9, 2013

If you like having no control over your process, trusting your film to some drunken lab employee who is going to jack everything up, and paying for the privilege, by all means go with a "Pro lab".

I used to get back dirty 4x5 chromes. That's when I started doing my own E6. Now my chromes are perfectly clean.

DIY color is so easy, you can do it with a bucket and hot water from a sink (E6 too!)

pentaxuser · Jan 9, 2013

EASmithV said:
If you like having no control over your process, trusting your film to some drunken lab employee who is going to jack everything up, and paying for the privilege, by all means go with a "Pro lab".

/QUOTE]

Or avoid any such chance of a drunken lab employee by only using labs in Utah

pentaxuser

CatLABS · Jan 9, 2013

Finding a pro lab in Utah might prove to be harder said then done, though i am sure they are out there.

Apparently we are dazed and confused

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