APH09 experience please?

Thought I'd try 'the more original' 1918 vintage recipe APH09 to compare it with R09.

My first roll was Plus-X and I rated it at 64ASA, pulling the dev by 1 min to reduce contrast. That's from 6m down to 5m at 1+25. Negs look very healthy but probably still too contrasty for what I expected with pulling by one stop.

As the new APH09 is the same strength as RO9 all the RO9 times/dilutions should apply which is where I got the Plus-X starting time from. Maybe 1m reduction is not enough for a 1 stop pull but I got that idea from a Kodak 'rule of thumb'.

Want to share any experiences with this WWI era developer?

I have used APH09 in the past, before they increased the strength, and would use the modern rodinal times, but at 1/40 rather than 1/50, and got good results, as good as modern rodinal, but the agitation changed, invert for first 30 seconds then 4 inversions every minute rather than invert for first minute then 2 every 30 seconds, results were every bit as good as Rodinal,
Richard

R gould said:

but the agitation changed, invert for first 30 seconds then 4 inversions every minute rather than invert for first minute then 2 every 30 seconds, results were every bit as good as Rodinal,
Richard

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Where did you get the info about agitation? I can find zero on the use of this specific dev - at least from Adox themselves.

As an aside – personally I will never go back to 4 invs per minute with anything like Rodinal as I got uneven development under the sprockets last 2 times I tried that with RO9. 2 per 30s works.

I prefer 5 inversions per every minute, 30 seconds initial agitation. I just bought a bottle of APH09 and am using it the same as Rodinal. My daughter used it for a roll of Delta 400, had she loaded the camera properly she would have had perfect negatives(instead of a clear strip of 36 exposures). The edge markings were super sharp.

mr.datsun said:

Where did you get the info about agitation? I can find zero on the use of this specific dev - at least from Adox themselves.

As an aside – personally I will never go back to 4 invs per minute with anything like Rodinal as I got uneven development under the sprockets last 2 times I tried that with RO9. 2 per 30s works.

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It was in 2005 that I was using APH09, when rodinal became hard to get, and over here APH09 in 1 litre bottles became readily available, I started with the Rodinal method of 60 sec then 2 or 3 every 30 nsec, and was getting uneven development, then I looked on the instructions on the bottle and they gave the 30 sec/4 every min, and I checked on the Adox site of the time and they gave the same info, tried it and perfect negatives, I understand that adox have slightly altered the APH09 formula to bring it into line with Rodinal now, but back then it was 1/40 as the standard dilution.
Richard

Rick A said:

I prefer 5 inversions per every minute, 30 seconds initial agitation. I just bought a bottle of APH09 and am using it the same as Rodinal. My daughter used it for a roll of Delta 400, had she loaded the camera properly she would have had perfect negatives(instead of a clear strip of 36 exposures). The edge markings were super sharp.

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Might depend on the film and dilution. But inversions at 60s spells trouble with 1+25 RO9/HP5, in my experience.

Any perceived differences in picture quality btween RO9 and APH09?

Once I experiented with Rodinal and R09 (old dliution) and APX 100. I snipped a film in halfs and get neary identical results.

piu58 said:

Once I experiented with Rodinal and R09 (old dliution) and APX 100. I snipped a film in halfs and get neary identical results.

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My Plus-X test perhaps shows less acuteness (based on a single print though). But I dont think I'll really know if there's any distinction until I put a roll HP5 through it.

I read that it has a different pH of 11.8 vs. 14 (RO9). Does a pH difference have any practical implications outside the domain of chemists' party-chat?

The other thing about APH09 is that you can re-use the mixed dev (up to 4 films within 2 days of mixing).

pHs to which you refer are those of the concentrates.
From LFA Mason, "Photographic Processing Chemistry" p120:
"Graininess is also often worse at high pH values, due partly to the rapid development of the coarse grains and partly to the greater spread of the silver filaments into the much softer gelatin."
IDK if silver filaments are produced in Rodinal.

Alan Johnson said:

pHs to which you refer are those of the concentrates.
From LFA Mason, "Photographic Processing Chemistry" p120:
"Graininess is also often worse at high pH values, due partly to the rapid development of the coarse grains and partly to the greater spread of the silver filaments into the much softer gelatin."
IDK if silver filaments are produced in Rodinal.

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Alan. Interesting:

Can grain be influenced by increasing the pH of a standard developer like R09?

Getting away from the thread I like the idea of sliver filaments. What effect do they have on the photo? Can they be controlled?

I believe more concentrated dilutions of Rodinal have been suggested when the question is asked "how to get most grain".

Re filaments,see esp the section "A short course in development technique"
http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/Film/page39.html
"A high pH ..makes gelatin more porous..developer can reach the lower layers of gelatin" "If..the source of the silver ions is the crystal itself, we call this process chemical development.Chemical growth tends to be filamentary."
Perhaps LFA Mason refers to this and higher pH working solution of new versions of Rodinal would give more grain,I have not done the comparison that would show if it is significant,maybe others have.

Alan Johnson said:

I believe more concentrated dilutions of Rodinal have been suggested when the question is asked "how to get most grain".

Re filaments,see esp the section "A short course in development technique"
http://www.imx.nl/photo/Film/Film/Film/page39.html
"A high pH ..makes gelatin more porous..developer can reach the lower layers of gelatin" "If..the source of the silver ions is the crystal itself, we call this process chemical development.Chemical growth tends to be filamentary."
Perhaps LFA Mason refers to this and higher pH working solution of new versions of Rodinal would give more grain,I have not done the comparison that would show if it is significant,maybe others have.

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Alan,

RO9 at 1+15 is already on my list of experiments to try – when I'm ready to attempt the extreme reduced timings involved.

My overall aim is to get a reduced contrast balanced with as much grain as I can. The higher 1+15 dilution is going to increase contrast so I have to find a compromise there. Also with regards pulling to reduce neg contrast - I understand that a higher exposure will lower grain so reducing the EI of the film in order to decrease contrast is another compromise. Somewhere in the middle I hope to find a balance.


From the information you provide we should expect lower grain in the APH09 version of the Rodinal developer but I'm going to try it on HP5 soon.


Many thanks for the link which i need to read and digest thoroughly.