Anyone willing to give me a masterclass in home development?

Hi All

Ever since getting into the home development side of things (many of you helped me with purchasing an Enlarger, amongst other things) I am getting increasingly frustrated by failure with regards to home development.

Despite watching various YouTube clips on how to process film and then printing, I keep destroying about 1/3 films, and my prints are far from consistent.

Before I throw in the towel and resort to commercial development for all my film, I wondered if there's anyone who lives locally to me (Derby, Derbyshire here in the UK) who might be a good soul and allow me to watch them 'do their thing' in their darkroom for an hour or two so I can see where I am going wrong? Or, if they'd prefer, they could to my darkroom to see where I might be going wrong.

It would be a real favour, I know.

Ted

Well temp stability is real important when printing, and water evaporating from the trays can drop the temp 3C in an hour or two. I have an electric heating pad under the dev tray to keep it at 20C.

ted_smith said:

I keep destroying about 1/3 films, and my prints are far from consistent.

Click to expand...

Can you be more specific about the film problem? Destroyed in what way?

Ted:

How may I help?

Joe

Hi Ted,

My commiserations, developing film is hard to learn from books etc. I'd suggest you get in touch with Andrew Sanderson (a fellow Ilford Master) who's up in Holmfirth. A good teacher will save you lots of money and disappointment.

Jerry Lebens

Ted I assume we are talking B&W film development? I went on a 10 week night school course which was excellent but at the risk of appearing smug, I am not sure that with hindsight the development process I learned couldn't have been successfully replicated in my own darkroom by following faithfully the Ilford routine which is waht we did on the course. Once the film is in the tank and initially that did take a bit of practice, the filling and emptying was pretty straightforward. Just make sure, as others have said, that the dev temp is what it should be.

We had a tutor but in reality he couldn't actually watch each of us doing the filling, emptying, temp checking etc and I can't recall any student saying that the film had turned out badly.

Now printing is another matter altogether and that's where a 1:1 with a good printer is very important and large classes do not lend themselves to enough contact with the tutor.

If Holmfirth is near enough then great. If not then I'd research a few camera clubs that still have a darkroom or check out local colleges and join a group and maybe persuade the tutor for an appropriate fee to give a 1:1.

Best of luck

pentaxuser

Ted, What type/size film are you using; and what, exactly, is ruining that 1/3 of your development attempts? Tell me more!

hmmm..... When I started developing Tri-X way back in the day- I simply taped the film insert instruction sheet to the wall of my little kitchen and followed the directions. I had a standard photographic thermometer (make sure yours is accurate) and never experienced any serious problems. Perhaps you have some problems in your water supply or are using bad chemicals.

Ted, I feel your pain, but I think we really need to know some more. Is it always the same film, same developer, same dilution and temperature? Are you adjusting along the lines of "overexpose and underdevelop" and is this consistent? Are you maybe using filters and just accepting the TTL meter reading as accurate? It would help us help you if you could give us more information.

Crickey - thanks for all the requests for more info. I didn't want to bore folk which is why I kept it sparse. There's lots of things that, potentially, I'm doing wrong but I don't know what's significant and what isn't.

Yes - I am referring to B&W.

Developing - Streaks
Initially it was streaky film - I started a thread here about it in fact and got lots of help. I thought I had cracked it having watched Mr Brunner on YouTube, I seemed to get consistent enough results from then on, although now and again the odd frame might have a streak in it which annoyed me and still does.

But then the other day, I 'wrecked' another film which had some great B&W shots of light beaming through tree tops. I used the same mixed solution of ID-11 developer that I had used about 8 weeks ago (that's a point - does it go off by any chance?), same stop, fixer, and everything (all Ilford chemicals actually) and the whole film was 50% streaks. Totally wrecked. My Nikon LS-2000 neg scanner couldn't even scan it in because it could not work out where one frame ended and the next began.

Prints

I shot a wedding recently - 50% digital, 50% B&W film. The couple chose a few of the film shots. I tried to print them at home. It took me 6 or 7 attempts to get the exposure the right, or what looked to be right at the time (I timed each one for about 90 seconds I think - whatever the Ilford guidance was for the paper I followed it) and then when it dried the little girls white dress and everything else in the scene looked really grey. I don't think this was an error in the neg as I added a little exposure compensation. Besides, the standard quality 'scan to CD' done by the commercial developer when they processed the film for me looks OK - unless they adjusted the image?

Distraught, I started this thread. I'm just fed up of my nice quality film, and nice quality shots getting wrecked by my errors with the developing. Which is why I thought I'd try and watch you guys. My only choice is to pay through the nose for comercial processing, which does not help my film costings ((there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Ted

Negative Streaks - most likely uneven or inconsistent agitation if they are areas of relative light/dark in the image. If they are completely blank streaks across the film then it is film touching itself on the reel.

Flat grey prints are likely a contrast problem to be fixed by adding magenta (contrast) filtration if you are using variable contrast paper or going to a higher contrast grade (number) of paper if you are using fixed grade paper. Printing color negs on regular B&W paper also has this effect. Good printing of C41 negs in B&W takes a special paper - Kodak used to call it Panalure.

Also, all traditional B&W papers I have ever used have what I was taught to call dry down - the image gets a little darker as the print drys.

I feel for you. When I started with black and white many years ago I too had problems. After a long abscence I returned to procesing B&W negs and prints.
At first I was all over the place. Negs too contrasty, prints muddy or no mid tones.
It takes pratice and patience. And while I am no expert I would suggest the following.

Be consistent while learning.
Stick with one film, one developer to start and follow the same steps to develop it.
Use freshly mixed chemicals. I use my film developer as one shot and don't reuse it. It is OK to keep the stock solution but minimize the amount of air in the staorage container.
Make sure your chemicals temps are at least 20C and the stop and fixer temps close to it.
Powderd developers are fine, but you may wish to try a liquid concentrate to start if you are not sure on your mixing.
Follow the same routine for agitation etc.
Make notes for each film.
Once you have a consistent technique down you will begin to learn what changes affect what in the negs.

As for printing, the problem is both the exposure and contrast have to be adjusted to get a decent print.
At first I would stab at it without understanding the basics.
Just keep in mind that the exposure is what controls the blacks and the contrast controls the whites.
In other words, do a test strip to determine the amount of time that gives the blacks you want, this could be true black or almost black.
Now this time is the amount of time you should expose the print for.
To get the whites and grays you wish then adjust the contrast by using a different filter or changing the filtration on your color head if you have one.
If the print is muddy looking with few whites go up the grades, if there is lot of black and white but not much in between go down the grades.
Once again consistency is the key, change only one thing at a time and soon you will understand what effects what.

I don't think I could even guess what is up with the streaks on the negatives. Perhaps you could scan a strip of the film and post it.
Are these liquid looking streaks like it happened in developing?
Or light looking streaks as if the film was fogged or the camera has a light leak.
Do you have more than one camera? Can you try a different one.

I would want to rule out problems with the film before you develop it first. Maybe there is nothing wrong with your developing but the film got fogged while you loaded or unloaded it in the camera or tank or a severe light leak on some kind.

Obvioulsy you will need to to start to get get consistent results at the negative stage of things before you can sort the printing part.

I hope this helps a little.

Ted,

You don't mention some details about your film development technique, for instance do you pre-soak the film (some do some don't), do you use a wetting agent such as photoflo, what sort of agitation technique to you use? Sometimes the devil is in the details.

I live in Wigan (a bit of a trek I know) but by all means pm me and we will see what we can arrange.

I must confess I am no "master" but have been developing films for quite some time. I wasn't trying to present myself as a Guru or anything like that

jerry lebens said:

Hi Ted,

My commiserations, developing film is hard to learn from books etc. I'd suggest you get in touch with Andrew Sanderson (a fellow Ilford Master) who's up in Holmfirth. A good teacher will save you lots of money and disappointment.

Jerry Lebens

Click to expand...

I'd most definitely endorse contacting Andrew Sanderson. I've been to his darkroom for a couple of 1:1 workshops, and both were incredibly helpful. In the end, you will save money, but I've found that it's made my time in the darkroom both more productive and much more enjoyable. He will deal with any of your problems, and at your pace.

Steve

when you say 'streaks" , or these water streaks, or film that hasn't been developed?

are you using distilled water with a bit of photoflow after washing? that will help the above if the streaks are from water.

others have given you lots of advise about the printing so won't repeat what has already been stated.

I'd suggest you get in touch with Andrew Sanderson (a fellow Ilford Master) who's up in Holmfirth. A good teacher will save you lots of money and disappointment.

Click to expand...

Does anyone know how I'd contact him? I assume he charges for these 1:1's - anyone know how much?

I've also had a kind offer from RJ who's based London way so next time I'm down there (which is quite often) I might pop in for a cuppa

Hello Ted,

I notice you mentioned that you used ID11. I got the impression that you had used it on a film, then used the same solution again a few weeks later?

I use ID11 all the time with Ilford FP4+ and HP5+ as a one shot developer. It is possible to use it at Stock, or the mix it with water 1:1 or 1:3. Use then throw away. In this way each film can be processed in the same way without adjustment. For example HP5+ - single film tank using say 300ml solution. e.g. ID11 @ 1:1 = 150ml ID11 stock + 150ml water mixed to provide 300ml at 20 degs C . Develop for 11 minutes with 30 secs agitation at the beginning and every minutes thereafter. Throw away DEV, pour in STOP agitate and stand for no more than 1 minute, ( this can be reused unless it starts to turn blue - exhausted ), pour in FIX, agitate and stand for about 5 minutes, this also can be retained for future use. Wash in running water or wash in 5 changes of water as per Ilford method.
This is a basic approach which you may change with time.

go to the Ilford website - www.ilfordphoto.com and search under products/film/datasheet etc for pdf files which will give you a lot of information. There is also a 'how to develop your first film / print' data sheet available too.

I hope this will help you. Regards Daniel

I am not a carpenter. What would you like your home developed into?

I'll chime in to further recommend finding an instructor and/or mentor. I've been taking classes at Dead Link Removed here in Seattle, and it's been both fun and empowering to work with knowledgeable instructors, as well as to compare notes and swap ideas with other students.

ted_smith said:

Hi All

Ever since getting into the home development side of things (many of you helped me with purchasing an Enlarger, amongst other things) I am getting increasingly frustrated by failure with regards to home development.

Despite watching various YouTube clips on how to process film and then printing, I keep destroying about 1/3 films, and my prints are far from consistent.

Before I throw in the towel and resort to commercial development for all my film, I wondered if there's anyone who lives locally to me (Derby, Derbyshire here in the UK) who might be a good soul and allow me to watch them 'do their thing' in their darkroom for an hour or two so I can see where I am going wrong? Or, if they'd prefer, they could to my darkroom to see where I might be going wrong.

It would be a real favour, I know.

Ted

Click to expand...

I really wish I could - aside from being in Britain for a while (a real treat photographically), teaching would imply that I knew what I was doing in that arena. Just the opposite is true, as I have many failures.

Hi Ted.

just picked this up today.

If you still want to see it done I would be delighted to offer you time in my darkroom FOC of course.

I live in Rochdale uk so if that;s any good send me a pm / email.


Bob Robertson

ted_smith said:

Developing - Streaks
But then the other day, I 'wrecked' another film which had some great B&W shots of light beaming through tree tops. I used the same mixed solution of ID-11 developer that I had used about 8 weeks ago (that's a point - does it go off by any chance?), same stop, fixer, and everything (all Ilford chemicals actually) and the whole film was 50% streaks. Totally wrecked. My Nikon LS-2000 neg scanner couldn't even scan it in because it could not work out where one frame ended and the next began.

Click to expand...

If you scan some negs on a flatbed and post here someone might be able to comment. My guess, FWIW, is the film is not loading correctly (as anearlier posted suggested), specifically layers are touching so it is then not getting processed correctly because the chemicals can't get to parts of it where it is touching.
That is a first order failure, agitation, stale chemicals, temperature not being bang on etc etc etc are second order. I do teach introductory B&W darkroom so I have seen quite a few dev failures and believe me it's actually quite a robust process once the film is properly loaded on the reel.

ted_smith said:

Prints

I shot a wedding recently - 50% digital, 50% B&W film. The couple chose a few of the film shots. I tried to print them at home. It took me 6 or 7 attempts to get the exposure the right, or what looked to be right at the time (I timed each one for about 90 seconds I think - whatever the Ilford guidance was for the paper I followed it) and then when it dried the little girls white dress and everything else in the scene looked really grey. Ted

Click to expand...

Hi Ted

I haven't been in the darkroom for quite a while unfortunately, hoping to again very soon. However just wanted to ask you do you actually do a test strip before you attempt a full print. Maybe not something an experienced printer may do, but if starting out it always a good thing to do. I might also be wrong on this (and someone with a lot of expertise will hopefully be able to help) but 90 seconds seems to be a long exposure. You might need to look at changing your aperture on your enlarger lens to reduce this time a bit. I think we were taught to start at F8 or 11 and then exposing at 5 second intervals up to 30 seconds (I so hope I am remembering this right, but will definitely be pulling my notes out before I print again) to try and get a good guide as to where the exposure should be.

A flat neg (incorrect exposure) will make it hard to get a good print, so check the negs first. If they are good then I think trying the test strip process would be a good start. I always worked on graded paper so could move a grade up or down, but not even sure if that is available anymore. VC I think requires the use of filters so maybe need to look at changing filter grades (Could also be wrong on this as well so hopefully someone out there may be more help). I do know one thing though, if you don't have a lot of experience it is always a good thing to start with the basics, so test strip is a good start.

Regards


Kathy