Anyone use a Paterson print washer (PTP231 or PTP233)?

Steve Goldstein · Jan 7, 2020

I happened to stumble across these on B+H's web site and they look like they might allow me to save some space in my extraordinarily cramped darkroom. Could someone who has either model give me the actual dimensions? I'm trying to figure out how big they are relative to the maximum paper size, and this info is not on the B+H site, only the size of the box it comes in. The Paterson web site is equally uninformative.

For reference:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40421-REG/Paterson_PTP231_8x10_Auto_Print_Washer.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/571379-REG/Paterson_PTP233_PTP233_Major_Print_Washer.html

Thank you

lauffray · Jan 7, 2020

Haven't tried those but they look interesting and narrower that the one I have. My Paterson tank leaks a bit so I'm curious to know if these have the same problem

Dali · Jan 7, 2020

The 8x10 print washer dimensions are 16 x 7 x 13 in.

Malcolm Stewart · Jan 7, 2020

I have one of the original (1970s) Auto Print Washer models with transparent plastic case sides - up to 12 sheets 12in x 10in paper; 16"L x 7"B x 13"H.
What I found was that the print agitation feature was quite sensitive to water pressure, and it was important to level the base of the washer. Too little flow, and the reciprocating piston action wouldn't start, too much and the plunger stayed at one end - again stopping the print agitation feature. In the UK, I was always able to find an optimum setting, but the 2 storey houses I lived in had mains water tanks in the loft, so the pressure wasn't that high. If you live in a hard water area, it's probably worthwhile keeping on top of any scale building up in the piston area. Haven't used mine in 20 years, but if I were to clean the scale off, I guess it would be OK.

pwitkop · Jan 7, 2020

I can check the dimensions of the 12x16 version later today. I like mine quite a bit

mgb74 · Jan 7, 2020

I have one here that looks very similar to the 12x16" version. Mine will handle 12x16 sheets. Width is 8.5". But add 1.5" for the 2 water nipples. Length is 19". Height is 19.5".

I've yet to set mine up so if you want to borrow for a while to see how it works for you, let me know.

Maris · Jan 7, 2020

I've used a Paterson Major Print Washer for many years. The nominal size of 12"X16" is misleading in that photographic paper of that size is just a fraction too big to fit in the washer basket. What I do use the washer for is 24 8"X10" fibre based prints at a time; that's 12 slots with two prints end on per slot. Very convenient.

mgb74 · Jan 7, 2020

Maris said:
I've used a Paterson Major Print Washer for many years. The nominal size of 12"X16" is misleading in that photographic paper of that size is just a fraction too big to fit in the washer basket. What I do use the washer for is 24 8"X10" fibre based prints at a time; that's 12 slots with two prints end on per slot. Very convenient.

Your're right! The basket that holds the prints tapers a bit from top to bottom. At the bottom, the maximum length for the print is 15 3/4" inches.

John Koehrer · Jan 7, 2020

From the description it will handle 8X10" prints. The dimensions are too small for 11X14.

craigclu · Jan 7, 2020

I've used the larger one for many years. There were some tests back then (one of the publications of the day but I can't recall which) showing that the agitation action could actually work against you by keeping some things suspended instead of settling out to the bottom feeding outlet. I once dropped something on the side inlet spout and broke it off and have used it successfully by just feeding a gentle supply to the top at one end. Testing showed thorough washing and my prints have proven very stable. It's quite compact compared to other brands.

Steve Goldstein · Jan 8, 2020

Thanks everyone for your input. Apparently it's somewhat smaller than my Versalab 11x14, which would be a good thing. It's unfortunate that the "12x16" isn't quite what it says, but it's good to know.

mgb74 · Jan 8, 2020

It's unfortunate that it's just a hair short of the advertised dimensions. I'd be annoyed if I bought one planning to use 16" paper and it won't fit. I got mine used for up to 11x14 so I can't personally complain.

Arkay also made a fairly compact stainless steel print washer but it's designed to allow water to flow out the top rather than into a tube. So needs to be in a sink.

Steve Goldstein · Jan 8, 2020

mgb74 said:
It's unfortunate that it's just a hair short of the advertised dimensions. I'd be annoyed if I bought one planning to use 16" paper and it won't fit. I got mine used for up to 11x14 so I can't personally complain.

Arkay also made a fairly compact stainless steel print washer but it's designed to allow water to flow out the top rather than into a tube. So needs to be in a sink.

Yes, I'd love to get one of those Arkay's but the sink thing is a killer for me - no sink in my darkroom, and no way to hook up the water feed in any sink in the house that would fit it.

tezzasmall · Jan 8, 2020

mgb74 said:
Arkay also made a fairly compact stainless steel print washer but it's designed to allow water to flow out the top rather than into a tube. So needs to be in a sink.

Paterson also made these flatter print washers, but much less paper can be put in them at a time, when compared to the others.

Terry S

Lachlan Young · Jan 8, 2020

I suspect that the Paterson Major washer was designed for 12x15" paper (historically the more common size in the UK) rather than 12x16". I'm not sure when (1970's?) 12x16" came to predominate.

Randy Stewart · Jan 9, 2020

I used the larger Paterson print washer for a number of years. Its water pressure driven print rack rocking mechanism requires a specific, narrow range of pressure to function or it just jams. It plastic fittings are delicate and easily broken. The piston which drives the rocking function is quite noisy, so you do not want to be in a small room with it when it is operating. Overall, I would not consider buying one at the current new prices. There must be less gimicky, more functional washers in small sizes out there.

Steve Goldstein · Jan 9, 2020

Randy, thank you for this. I certainly don't want anything finicky to replace my simple-but-big Versalab. I wish Alistair Inglis was still running his business.

The collective knowledge on this site never ceases to amaze me.

bdial · Jan 9, 2020

I too have one of the larger Patterson washers. I found that the agitator mechanism needs a higher flow rate to operate than I preferred, and it makes rude noises when operating, so I removed it, and substituted a simple bulkhead fitting. I didn't find any difference in the effectiveness of the wash.
I like the compactness of the Patterson vs most plexi "archival" washers. It fits nicely into a small space, and since it has an outlet hose, it doesn't need to sit in a sink.

mgb74 · Jan 9, 2020

Randy Stewart said:
I used the larger Paterson print washer for a number of years. Its water pressure driven print rack rocking mechanism requires a specific, narrow range of pressure to function or it just jams. It plastic fittings are delicate and easily broken. The piston which drives the rocking function is quite noisy, so you do not want to be in a small room with it when it is operating. Overall, I would not consider buying one at the current new prices. There must be less gimicky, more functional washers in small sizes out there.

I think the Arkay version meets that "less gimicky, more functional" criteria. But there would need to be 2 modifications if used outside a sink. As designed and constructed:

Water flows out of the washer through 3 holes at the top. If those holes were replaced with a hose, the output could be directed rather than just cascading down the side.
There is a small hole in the bottom of the side to allow water with spent fixer to drain. A nipple with small hose could be used to direct that output.

As I recall from a Zone VI washer I used some time ago, baffles on either end encourage water flow from one side to the other side, then to the drain. As opposed to flowing just from the top "layer" of water. I don't know how much difference that makes in practice. The Paterson inputs water at the top on one side and drains from the bottom of the other side (with a tube that rises to the same level as the input). Perhaps that accomplishes the same.

Once you eliminate the rocking effect that the Paterson has, it would be maddeningly easy to replicate the washer except for the print basket.

Anyone use a Paterson print washer (PTP231 or PTP233)?

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