Anyone use a "flip dryer" for FB?

jmal · Jul 15, 2007

I just bought a used flip dryer (very cheaply) and when I dried my prints with it they stuck to the canvas apron. When I peeled them off, there were fibers from the canvas stuck in the emulsion. Is this common? A result of too long or too little in the dryer? I would experiment with it a little, but I figured I'd ask first as the cost and time involved is a little much to ruin prints. Lastly, am I better off just drying on screens? Time and space is not an issue. Thanks.

Jmal

thebanana · Jul 15, 2007

I've used one of these a few times. I use a medium to high heat and keep the print in the dryer longer. I'm thinking 10-15 minutes. Try experimenting a bit before using it for any fine art

John

Ole · Jul 15, 2007

I use one all the time. Set the temperature at 40 C or equivalent, and wipe the print surface before closing the dryer.

Some papers stick more than others. POP should NOT be dried on these...

jmal · Jul 15, 2007

Mine does not have any temperature adjustability. You simply plug it in and it heats up. The paper was Ilford Warmtone Glossy FB.

frugal · Jul 15, 2007

Is this the type of dryer where there's a metal "drum" and you put prints on either side and canvas stretches over the drum to hold the prints onto it? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but don't you put them so that the emulsion side is against the metal and the paper backing is against the canvas? From the sound of things with you describing canvas fibers in the emulsion it sounds like you're putting the emulsion side against the canvas.

Roger Hicks · Jul 15, 2007

frugal said:
Is this the type of dryer where there's a metal "drum" and you put prints on either side and canvas stretches over the drum to hold the prints onto it? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but don't you put them so that the emulsion side is against the metal and the paper backing is against the canvas? From the sound of things with you describing canvas fibers in the emulsion it sounds like you're putting the emulsion side against the canvas.

Only with a glazing sheet do you dry them 'emulsion in'; otherwise it's 'emulsion out' against the canvas. I had problems with prints sticking to the canvas (which is one reason I stopped using glazers as dryers) and Ilford recommended that I use a hardening fixer.

Cheers,

Roger

patrickjames · Jul 15, 2007

I have one of these and find it indespensible for flattening prints fast. The trick for me is to use some hot press watercolor paper on top of the prints. I also use the watercolor paper on the rare occasion when I use it as a dryer. The prints should be squeegeed (sp?) first. Using this type of paper should eliminate your problems and keep your drier cleaner longer. I use mine with the heat cranked up all the way just to let you know.

Patrick

radiantdarkroom · Jul 15, 2007

I found that Ilford paper doesn't work so well on my FB flip dryer. It says in their literature inclosed that these driers will not work. Works fine with kodak paper.

CraigH · Jul 15, 2007

I have a Sipratone "flip" dryer that I have used since I bought it around 1973. I've usually use glossy FB paper dried face down on the ferrotype tins, flipping the dryer every 5 minutes or so.

Craig

Paddy · Jul 16, 2007

I used to have one that was picked-up quite cheap, but I let it go as it wasn't getting used enough. I still prefer to air dry my FB prints on inexpensive homemade screen-frames,...face down. They're also much easier to keep clean than the canvas on the dryer units. The last thing you need is cross contamination from one bad print, getting cooked into other prints, via the canvas.

frugal · Jul 16, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
Only with a glazing sheet do you dry them 'emulsion in'; otherwise it's 'emulsion out' against the canvas. I had problems with prints sticking to the canvas (which is one reason I stopped using glazers as dryers) and Ilford recommended that I use a hardening fixer.

Cheers,

Roger

Figured someone would clear that up, I have one but I got it years ago with some other darkroom gear and have never used it so I couldn't tell you if I'm remembering instructions incorrectly, had incorrect instructions, or do have a glazing sheet.

hadeer · Jul 16, 2007

Adapting print dryer for lower temperature

Hi, I have the experience that (the cheap) dryer I use tended to get too hot for flat and even drying. I adapted it by fitting an adjustable resistor in the circuit (with the knob sticking out the side of the dryer). The resistor is the type like used in an electric heater.
After some experimenting I found the right temperature for flat and even drying.
Hans

Mike Té · Jul 16, 2007

I also turn off the heat and let the prints cool down completely while still pressed in the dryer. More chance of staying flat.

thebanana · Jul 16, 2007

What exactly is a glazing sheet, and where would one find such a thing?

Roger Hicks · Jul 16, 2007

thebanana said:
What exactly is a glazing sheet, and where would one find such a thing?

A mirror-polished sheet of chrome plated metal, or (I believe) sometimes even stainless steel, thin enough to be flexible. The print is squeegeed face down onto it, after being soaked in 'glazing solution' (traditionally a solution of ox-gall, though almost any alternative smells better). The sandwich is then placed face down on the dryer and the blanket is stretched over the whole.

Where would you find 'em? Dunno, nowadays. Any of the really serious dealers, such as Silverprint, should be able to give you some leads.

I believe one American name for them is a 'ferrotype plate', but I'm not sure enough to guarantee the exact wording.

Cheers,

Roger

light leak · Jul 16, 2007

Roger Hicks said:
I believe one American name for them is a 'ferrotype plate', but I'm not sure enough to guarantee the exact wording.

Cheers,

Roger

That's what I've always known them as. But I thought the smooth polished surface of the dryer was the ferrotype plate. Learn something new every day.
I only use it to check dry down anyway.

Jonathan

Roger Hicks · Jul 16, 2007

light leak said:
That's what I've always known them as. But I thought the smooth polished surface of the dryer was the ferrotype plate. Learn something new every day.
I only use it to check dry down anyway.

Jonathan

Dear Jonathan,

It is entirely possible that your usage is correct and mine wrong, which was why I was hesitant to go any further -- though I believe that 'ferrotyping' is a direct translation for 'glazing'. It's hard to judge which is more misleading, except, I suppose, that prints were at one time cold glazed literally on sheets of glass. I tried it in my 'teens, out of historical interest, and when it works, it's great, and when it doesn't, it's a bugger getting the dried-on remains of a wrecked print off your wardrobe mirror.

Cheers,

Roger

CraigH · Jul 16, 2007

Ferrotype plates is what we call them here.

Craig

Paddy · Jul 16, 2007

Ferrotyping, is the correct term, and likely so is glazing. It probably depends on where you're from. Check any vintage "glossy" b&w print, and you're likely looking at a ferrotyped print. Today the closest we have to this surface is glossy RC paper. Frankly, I've never liked it, as there's just too much reflective surface.

Roger Hicks · Jul 17, 2007

The good ol' Focal Encyclopedia (fully revised edition, 1965) clears up the mystery.

A ferrotype, as all APUG users will know, is a direct positive on a dark-enamelled iron support, a sort of poor man's Daguerrotype in appearance, and often confused with Daguerreotypes by laymen. It is a variation of the Ambrotype and was introduced by AA Martin in 1852 or 53. This much I knew (except for recalling the exact date). It was very popular in the USA in the 1860s -- my wife has a ferrotype of one of her forebears, a Union soldier who died in Andersonville prison -- and survived for 'walkie' photography until perhaps the 1950s.

The very smooth surface of a ferrotype plate was at one time the most convenient surface for glazing, and the name was retained in the United States when polished chrome, stainless steel (and, according to the Encyclopedia) plastic were substituted for actual ferrotype plates. This was the bit I didn't know, and explains the use of a term I had always thought to be extremely misleading. Ferrotypes were of course generally known in the USA a tintypes, which is presumably why Americans don't see 'ferrotype plate' as confusing.

Glazed prints were much preferred for repro, which is why I used to run a Kodak 15-inch glazer, but with the advent of good RC glossy, there was no longer any need. Also, scanning is a lot quicker and easier than making a traditional screened neg.

Cheers,

Roger

Anyone use a "flip dryer" for FB?

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