Anyone tried printing papers for alternative processes?

ValoPeikko · Mar 26, 2015

I'm wondering if anyone has tried the inkjet printing papers for alternative processes. There's plenty of 100% cotton rag papers and other acid free papers available for printing. Reason I'm wondering this is that I'm considering doing show pieces as single editions, then providing digital reproduction numbered edition as cheaper alternative. This for me is cost efficient (time wise) and something that caters for different kinds of buyers. These papers would allow me to do actual alternative process prints (salt, ziatype and gum) on same papers that digital reproductions would be printed on. There's tons of choice in Canson Infinity series as well as Hahnemühle digital papers and I don't have the luxury of time to go through all of them. So if someone has tried some and found them non-suitable or even better as excellent for alternative processes, then I'd love to hear about it.

mexipike · Mar 26, 2015

I am far from the expert on the subject, but I would maybe consider one of the papers that canson makes that are made with BFK Rives for you inkjet work. You could then purchase BFK rives standard paper, the same paper that Canson uses, for your alternative work. This way you would avoid the issues of whatever coating or treatment canson may use interfering with your alternative process. Also, I would imagine it would be much more cost efficient. I assume the results would match quite nicely and BFK rives is a really nice paper.

gone · Mar 26, 2015

There's some pertinent info on this subject on the link below, and I learned something from it myself. I still have a lot of high quality inkjet papers in 13x19 size from my old scan and print days, and was considering using them for watercolours, pastels, etc. From what this info says, it's not a good idea. Apparently, only the 100% rag papers, of which I have none anymore (Epson's Velvet Fine Art papers are a good example), are archival. The others are going to fade away at different rates. My scheme now is to try and peddle them on eBait to people who want to use them for what they're designed for, and I'm going to buy some traditional art papers for my art projects.

http://www.shortcourses.com/display/display2-6.html

Whiteymorange · Mar 26, 2015

At a cyanotype workshop a few weeks ago, one of the participants, who owns a high end scanning and printing company, brought with him what he considered the best all rag printing paper for inkjet. I'm sorry, but I didn't get the name. The surface was so absorbent that the solution simply disappeared into the paper before we could spread it! When we subbed it with gelatin, it got a little better, but even the gelatin was absorbed by the surface in an uneven way, making the sensitizing difficult at best.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but the qualities that made this paper so good for inkjet seemed at odds with what was needed for cyanotype.

pschwart · Mar 26, 2015

ValoPeikko said:
I'm wondering if anyone has tried the inkjet printing papers for alternative processes. There's plenty of 100% cotton rag papers and other acid free papers available for printing. Reason I'm wondering this is that I'm considering doing show pieces as single editions, then providing digital reproduction numbered edition as cheaper alternative. This for me is cost efficient (time wise) and something that caters for different kinds of buyers. These papers would allow me to do actual alternative process prints (salt, ziatype and gum) on same papers that digital reproductions would be printed on. There's tons of choice in Canson Infinity series as well as Hahnemühle digital papers and I don't have the luxury of time to go through all of them. So if someone has tried some and found them non-suitable or even better as excellent for alternative processes, then I'd love to hear about it.

Forget using inkjet paper for alt prints. The closest you can get is to use watercolor papers that are also available in a coated version for inkjets. Depending on the specific process requirements, some papers need an acid soak, additional sizing, and extended processing in various chemical baths. Coated inkjet paper just cannot stand up to this, and the receptive coating creates problems of it's own. I actually don't think you need to use exactly the same paper for alt and digital editions as long as you use papers of the same surface texture and tone.

removed account4 · Mar 26, 2015

Whiteymorange said:
At a cyanotype workshop a few weeks ago, one of the participants, who owns a high end scanning and printing company, brought with him what he considered the best all rag printing paper for inkjet. I'm sorry, but I didn't get the name. The surface was so absorbent that the solution simply disappeared into the paper before we could spread it! When we subbed it with gelatin, it got a little better, but even the gelatin was absorbed by the surface in an uneven way, making the sensitizing difficult at best.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but the qualities that made this paper so good for inkjet seemed at odds with what was needed for cyanotype.

saved me a PM !

ValoPeikko · Mar 26, 2015

Thanks all for info! I knew it would be better to ask then to be sorry. Also thanks for the BFK Rives suggestion, I think I'll give it a try. First testing a single sheet (I have one for inkjet already and I can order one sheet for alternative processes testing) Then compare and see if it's my weapon of choice. If not, then testing other known papers which have inkjet versions as well. Actually I see that hahnmühle bamboo is available as inkjet printer paper as well. I've used it with success in salt prints (the non-inkjet version). So that could also work.

Also since I feel that this thread might help others as well, keep suggestions and ideas flowing. I'll post examples of two mentioned once I get papers (could be a while but anyway).

jim10219 · Sep 12, 2017

The best paper I've ever used for Cyanotypes is "Staples Photo Supreme Matte" paper in 13"x19". It's super smooth and the sizing holds the cyanotype emulsion perfectly. You can't find a paper that will produce a sharper image. The blues are a bit lighter (most papers produce a richer blue hue), but the tonal range is still good.

The down sides are it is fairly thin, so multiple layers of print won't really be possible. You can really only get it wet once. And you have be careful with it during development so you don't rip it. That also makes it difficult to tone with tannins and such. But if you're looking for a single shot cyanotype with pristine clarity, sharpness, and good tonality, that's the paper to use.

It doesn't seem to do as well for Van Dykes, and I don't remember why. I only tried it once while doing a large paper test trial and only remember thinking "Nope. Next." I had ran across several better papers to use in that test and unfortunately didn't keep good notes beyond "Use these, not these".

NedL · Sep 12, 2017

When I first read this, I thought it was about printimaking papers... I've had mixed luck with those, depending greatly on what process...

removed account4 · Sep 12, 2017

if nearly 20 years of emails wasn't vanished from my computer i'd be able to
actually post more than what i "remember" but soon after this thread popped up
and then vanished again, a couple of years ago, i corresponded with someone who
regularly coated IJ paper with cyanotype fluid and she said her results were really beautiful.
not sure if she used cheap stuff or if she subbed it, but she said instead of the image being ontop of the paper
like it is with regular paper, it is inside the paper ( or maybe i have it reversed ! ) anyways
as usual, there is someone who gets good results ... somehow.

Dan Pavel · Sep 13, 2017

I've tried some Epson, HP and other inkjet printing papers with VDB. Most of them didn't work. The only one that reasonably worked was a Canson Infinity Arches Aquarelle Rag.

domaz · Sep 18, 2017

Inkjet papers can successfully be used for Carbon Transfer Printing. I've never tried it but have heard reports that certain papers will transfer quite well without any kind of preparation. To be safe they should be prepared with a hardened gelatin layer though which involves brushing on gelatin then applying a gelatin hardener of some sort (most of which are toxic like formalin etc).

pschwart · Sep 23, 2017

domaz said:
Inkjet papers can successfully be used for Carbon Transfer Printing. I've never tried it but have heard reports that certain papers will transfer quite well without any kind of preparation. To be safe they should be prepared with a hardened gelatin layer though which involves brushing on gelatin then applying a gelatin hardener of some sort (most of which are toxic like formalin etc).

Inkjet papers can successfully be used for Carbon Transfer Printing. I've never tried it
Then why report this? Enough said.

I am a carbon printer, and the Inkjet papers I have tested are generally a poor choice for carbon transfer supports. Transfers are simple, but the ink receptive layer usually does not stand up well in hot water, and it holds dichromate stain and so is difficult to clear. The whole attraction to using inkjet paper is to avoid having to size supports. RC paper, Yupo and other synthetic papers, and fixed photo papers don't need to be sized, so those are a better choice. If you don't mind sizing, better to spend your energy using watercolor paper.

removed account4 · Sep 23, 2017

i wasn't able to find the conversation i was thinking about
... but one by another person who wrote a book ( blurb ) on
hand coating baryta papers. http://www.blurb.com/books/1819950-vouloir-c-est-pouvoir
i am not sure if the baryta papers made for ink jet printing are in the mix but they are also used
for jet printing, and i THINK this was the kind of ink jet paper
the person whose emails i can't find, was talking about.
good luck !
john

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 23, 2017

I've coated Epson matte inkjet paper with acrylic matte medium, and made some nice carbon transfers on it. I've also transferred directly onto the same paper but without acrylic sizing. It worked well, but the dichromate stain was impossible to clear completely. I have never tried it with other processes.

Anyone tried printing papers for alternative processes?

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