Anyone know who's coating Silberra color films?

Donald Qualls · Jan 26, 2022

YouTuber Ribsy released a video within the last couple days, testing and reviewing Silberra color film. It comes in 50, 100, and 160 ISO speed, in 35 mm and 120, for C-41, but has a nearly transparent base rather than the distinct orange mask I'm used to seeing with C-41 and ECN-2 films. Still prints well, though (Ribsy made some RA-4 prints to demonstrate that), even though I had understood the orange mask (which is anti-imagewise to some extent) is critical to correct color balance in the print.

Anyway, it works, the negatives look like cross-processed E-6 film in C-41 chemistry, but prints look like ordinary color prints.

So, is Silberra an actual coating operation, are they repurposing an aerographic film, is this coming off the Innoviscoat line like some/all of Lomography's color films, or have we falling into the Twilight Zone?

AgX · Jan 26, 2022

Old, relabelled aerial films.

mohmad khatab · Jan 26, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
YouTuber Ribsy released a video within the last couple days, testing and reviewing Silberra color film. It comes in 50, 100, and 160 ISO speed, in 35 mm and 120, for C-41, but has a nearly transparent base rather than the distinct orange mask I'm used to seeing with C-41 and ECN-2 films. Still prints well, though (Ribsy made some RA-4 prints to demonstrate that), even though I had understood the orange mask (which is anti-imagewise to some extent) is critical to correct color balance in the print.

Anyway, it works, the negatives look like cross-processed E-6 film in C-41 chemistry, but prints look like ordinary color prints.

So, is Silberra an actual coating operation, are they repurposing an aerographic film, is this coming off the Innoviscoat line like some/all of Lomography's color films, or have we falling into the Twilight Zone?

It doesn't matter who makes it. I don't want to know
I will consider that whoever manufactures it is (Lucifer), the accursed Satan himself.
Anyway, welcome to this product

Donald Qualls · Jan 26, 2022

AgX said:
Old, relabelled aerial films.

Well, based on the video Mohmad linked, I may have to put an alert on it at B&H and get a few rolls next time they get some in. One film that makes good color negatives, decent slides, and can be redscaled (if you're into that kind of thing, and can read a negative well enough to tell underexposed from overexposed). Last price I saw wasn't any worse than other specialty (i.e. not Kodak or Fuji) color films, though it might well be higher for the next batch imported.

mohmad khatab · Jan 26, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Well, based on the video Mohmad linked, I may have to put an alert on it at B&H and get a few rolls next time they get some in. One film that makes good color negatives, decent slides, and can be redscaled (if you're into that kind of thing, and can read a negative well enough to tell underexposed from overexposed). Last price I saw wasn't any worse than other specialty (i.e. not Kodak or Fuji) color films, though it might well be higher for the next batch imported.

+1

Agulliver · Jan 27, 2022

Based on that Youtube link, it really is interesting. I might just put some on my wish list. I don't see it being an every day film but it's certainly curious and can definitely be used as colour neg and reversal....which is pretty unusual.

Do we know for sure that it is "old, relabelled aerial films" or is this conjecture?

Henning Serger · Jan 27, 2022

Hello Donald,

Donald Qualls said:
So, is Silberra an actual coating operation,

No, they are not.

Donald Qualls said:
are they repurposing an aerographic film,

Most probably that is leftover stock from former, long discontinued aerial film.

Donald Qualls said:
is this coming off the Innoviscoat line like some/all of Lomography's color films,

No, it is not.
And very important: Only the "creative" colour films Lomography is offering are from InovisCoat. Their standard colour negative films are just repackaged Kodak amateur CN films (Pro Image 100, Ultramax 400, Ultramax 800), but with a third party confectioning and at higher prices (as almost always with repackaged film in general).

Currently Eastman Kodak, Fujifilm, Polaroid and InovisCoat are the only producers of colour film. And none of them is producing the Silberra colour film.

Best regards,
Henning

Jonno85uk · Jan 27, 2022

Henning Serger said:
Their standard colour negative films are just repackaged Kodak amateur CN films (Pro Image 100, Ultramax 400, Ultramax 800), but with a third party confectioning and at higher prices (as almost always with repackaged film in general).

To be fair, it's not like you can get any of those in 120, which is what I buy from them. Is ultramax 800 available in 35mm on it's own?

Henning Serger · Jan 27, 2022

Jonno85uk said:
Is ultramax 800 available in 35mm on it's own?

It is currently used by Kodak in their Single Use Cameras (SUC). Maybe it is the product which is intended to be offered again in 35mm single rolls: One Kodak Alaris representative has one year ago talked about one film type being reintroduced to the market again, which was already offered some years ago.
Ultramax 800 would be the product which is by far the 'most easy' to bring back, as it is in production. Just boxing as single 135-36 film is needed.

Best regards,
Henning

brbo · Jan 28, 2022

Jonno85uk said:
Is ultramax 800 available in 35mm on it's own?

Yes, as Lomography Color Negative 800.

Donald Qualls · Jan 28, 2022

Okay, so Silberra color is cold-stored aero film, most likely originally from a Soviet producer who would seemingly have made it for Soviet surveillance or geological/oceanographic purposes.

Based on results in the YouTube video linked above, it looks like it's been well stored, at least. Only big questions, then, are how much more there is (master roll quantity?) and is all of it equally well stored? Heck, I just paid $12/roll for common B&W (likely Fomapan 100) cut and rolled, but not in sealed pouch, on plastic spools in 127 format (well, I did it in part to increase my supply of spools, as well as to have some to test a "new" century-old camera). Now that I have spools in hand, once I go through those rolls (which I presume won't hold fresh as well as sealed pouch, based on my own experience, so I'll use them first), I'll be able to supply my 127 cameras by recutting 120 -- but I can't get a film like Silberra's color stocks that way.

I'll pay $14/roll for 120 that I can choose at processing time to make negatives or positives...

halfaman · Jan 29, 2022

Kodak Aerocolor 2460 is still offered in the Kodak webpage.

https://www.kodak.com/en/advanced-materials/page/aerial-imaging-aerial-films

AgX · Jan 29, 2022

Yes and, it seemingly is still converted and rebranded by yet another dealer.

Concering the Silberra films, they can be explained by using a mix of recent (or current) films from Agfa and Kodak and converting, relabeling and rebranding them.

When using the term "old" above, I was not thinking of soviet times...

Henning Serger · Jan 29, 2022

Donald Qualls said:
Okay, so Silberra color is cold-stored aero film,

No one except Silberra themselves knows whether the stock they are using has been cold-stored.

Donald Qualls said:
most likely originally from a Soviet producer who would seemingly have made it for Soviet surveillance or geological/oceanographic purposes.

Most certainly not from 'Soviet' production. Too much time has passed.
And Tasma stopped their own colour film production almost 30 years ago. For a very limited time after that Kodak provided Tasma with colour film, which was then converted by Tasma. But Kodak stopped that soon (despite their promises to Tasma).
Most probably Silberra has bought aerial film from western sources, so either expired Agfa-Gevaert (Belgium) Aviphot Color or (expired or current) Kodak Aerocolor film. Spooling Kodak Aerocolor film (and Kodak Vision movie film) in 35mm cassettes has become quite popular in Russia recently, done e.g. by film labs and camera shops. On instagram you can find thousands of pictures made with these 're-spooled' films.
Looks like Silberra is just doing the same, as they say in their product description: "Meanwhile we use refurbished cartridges for our films and as color emulsion is quite sensitive, ........... We've tried different cartridge types, including the plasic ones, but with COLOR film the best way was to use the refurbished ones: they give better light protection."
By a direct side-by-side comparison of the (re-spooled) Kodak Aerocolor to the Silberra colour film you will see whether they are identical.

Best regards,
Henning

Paul Howell · Jan 29, 2022

Somewhat surprised that Photo Wearhouse is not selling Kodak Aerocolor, they sell a lot of Kodak reloads.

Donald Qualls · Jan 29, 2022

Paul Howell said:
Somewhat surprised that Photo Wearhouse is not selling Kodak Aerocolor, they sell a lot of Kodak reloads.

Hmm. If they don't, perhaps FPP does? Nope, as far as I can see, they don't. Don't see that on eBay, either -- the only color aerial film that comes up is Ektachrome Aero, pre-1960 ASA 40, expired (as best the seller can read) 1954 in a 9 1/2" x 40 foot roll (and a pretty rusty can).

c t b · Jan 31, 2022

I think info on this might be better in russian language photography forums

Ten301 · Feb 1, 2022

The Silberra color films are either newly manufactured, or old master rolls that were kept very well, and I mean extremely, almost unbelievably well. I believe the latter possibility is rather unlikely.

My thoughts, given the clear base, is repackaged Kodak Aerocolor 2460. There’s been a lot of it the past few years repackaged by Russian sellers and sold on auction websites. I don’t know how it’s been finding its way to Russia and their fascination with it, but there it is. Since Kodak lists Aerocolor’s EI as 125, I wonder if Silberra 50, 100 and 160 could actually all be the same film: Kodak Aerocolor 2460, with the increase/decrease in exposure changing the saturation/characteristics of the film. For example, Silberra 50 has more color saturation and finer grain. That would make sense if you were overexposing an EI 125 film.

tbeaman · Feb 1, 2022

Could be. They might be preflashing it or using some other sensitization process for the other speeds too.

Note though that the 125 speed spec is only for certain conditions. First, it’s an aerial film ISO A spec, which differs from terrestrial pictorial ISO, in a way I don’t fully understand how to convert.

Second, it requires push processing. There’s a table in the datasheet showing the relative contrast and speed levels achieved at different processing times. For regular 3:15 C-41 with a 0.63 contrast it’s rated at 80 ISO A. You get 125 ISO A only with a 5:15 time which also gets you a crispy 0.9 in contrast. Which could have it’s use if people want to experiment with reversal processing (has a clear base!)

What I’d like to know is if it can be ordered in the 9.5” size to cut down to 8x10 or even 8x20 or other craziness. B&H used to list it for special order but not anymore. Found a reference to a $1500 price, likely for the 250’ roll. Given the prices of 8x10 Portra or Ektar, that’s a steal.

AgX · Feb 1, 2022

Ten301 said:
My thoughts, given the clear base, is repackaged Kodak Aerocolor 2460. There’s been a lot of it the past few years repackaged by Russian sellers and sold on auction websites. I don’t know how it’s been finding it’s way to Russia and their fascination with it, but there it is. Since Kodak lists Aerocolor’s EI as 125, I wonder if Silberra 50, 100 and 160 could actually all be the same film: Kodak Aerocolor 2460, with the increase/decrease in exposure changing the saturation/characteristics of the film. For example, Silberra 50 has more color saturation and finer grain. That would make sense if you were overexposing an EI 125 film.

-) There is a dealer in Ukraine who for decades sold Kodak aerial films officially. They have converting capacities too
-) You mix up terrestial and aerial films sensitivity which are established to different standards
-) some years ago we still got two manufacturers of colour aerial films with still a great variety of films, amongst them 3 CN maskless films.

Ten301 · Feb 1, 2022

AgX said:
-) There is a dealer in Ukraine who for decades sold Kodak aerial films officially. They have converting capacities too
-) You mix up terrestial and aerial films sensitivity which are established to different standards
-) some years ago we still got two manufacturers of colour aerial films with still a great variety of films, amongst them 3 CN maskless films.

If I’m not mistaken, Astrum in Ukraine sold Kodak aerial films and possibly still does, and has converting capabilities.

You are correct that I don’t quite understand the aerial/terrestrial film sensitivity standards, or how they translate. I’m just curious if the three Silberra color films could be the same, Kodak 2460, and Silberra is just playing a bit with marketing and the film’s inherent latitude (or another process, as “tbeaman” mentioned) to create a bit different ‘look’ for each.

We’ve established that there are a finite number of players in color film manufacturing, and who those players are. If we rule out the others, and it seems we have, and given the Silberra films’ clear base, that leaves only two possibilities: Kodak in the U.S. and Agfa in Belgium, that have/had produced C41 compatible clear-based aerial films. Unless Silberra convinced Agfa to restart production, that only leaves Kodak Aerocolor as the possibility of what is loaded in those Silberra packages. I’ve used the film; it’s too fresh. It’s not old stock.

AgX · Feb 1, 2022

As you say there is no colour film production coming out of the blue. As we have seen in the past, dealers may put a sensitivity label of their own "findings" on a film.

As a side note, all aerial colour fims have a clear, colourless base, masked or not, What you see as orange tint in masked films of any kind is residual masking dye of the emulsion, actually coloured couplers.

Henning Serger · Feb 1, 2022

Ten301 said:
Since Kodak lists Aerocolor’s EI as 125, I wonder if Silberra 50, 100 and 160 could actually all be the same film: Kodak Aerocolor 2460, with the increase/decrease in exposure changing the saturation/characteristics of the film. For example, Silberra 50 has more color saturation and finer grain. That would make sense if you were overexposing an EI 125 film.

It is very likely that Silberra is using the same film material for their Silberra 50, 100 and 160 labelled films.
They are doing exactly that - one same film type, but in different boxes with different film speeds - for example with their relabelled Agfa-Gevaert Aviphot B&W films.

Unfortunately all current repackaging companies are trying to fool their customers in one way or the other. Some are very aggressive in that by telling marketing lies, some are more cautious using more defensive or indirect ways.
It is very sad. More honesty would be much better for the film community.

Ten301 said:
Unless Silberra convinced Agfa to restart production, ....

They have not. Agfa-Gevaert is currently only producing B&W films.

Best regards,
Henning

brbo · Feb 1, 2022

AgX said:
As a side note, all aerial colour fims have a clear, colourless base, masked or not...

Can you explain what is a masked film with invisible/clear mask?

AgX · Feb 1, 2022

I did no say anything about a "clear/invisible mask". At any masked negative the mask is basically visible except for highest densities.
Here at this forum constantly base and mask are mixed up. They are completely different and not related to each other at all.

Anyone know who's coating Silberra color films?

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