Anyone know the history of Lith printing?

Ian Grant · Feb 23, 2008

Jim Noel said:
Gene Nokon, a British import to San Diego, may not have been the first, but he likely was the first to make lith printing well known.

I'm not sure that's right at all, I seem to remember that Bob Carlos Clarke's images were very widely published before Gene Nocon became known. I've never seen or read anything about Gene Nocon and Lith prints, I think there were a number of people making lith prints around the late 70's early 80's.

Ian

Fintan · Feb 23, 2008

Such an interesting thread. Mike Spry is an absolute genius. I've been to a few Corbijn exhibitions and his printing makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. Genius.

ic-racer · Feb 23, 2008

Wow, a lot of great information here!

Just a note on the Michael Becotte book. I had known of his work since the early 80s but had been unable to locate a copy of his book ( (there was a url link here which no longer exists) ). I did not know it was 'lith' at the time. I was more interested in his 'Post-Friedlander' style.

Anyway, with the magic of the internet, I did a Amazon search and found multiple places to purchase the Becotte book. I wound up getting a mint copy for less than $30.

This was almost a year ago. I still did not recognize it as 'lith' printing until two nights ago when I did my first lith print. It then hit me and I put two and two together. It was a great moment to finally understand Becotte's work after all these years.

arigram · Feb 23, 2008

"lithos" is actually a greek word, one of the words for "stone".
"Lithografia" is the actual greek term.

tim rudman · Feb 23, 2008

Jim Noel said:
Gene Nokon, a British import to San Diego, may not have been the first, but he likely was the first to make lith printing well known. I don't know the year he won the Ilford annual contest with lith prints, but it was about 20 years ago. snip.

It would have been a bit earlier. I met him when I won the Ilford ap printer of the year award in (I think) 83 or 84. He was already an Ilford printer award winner by then and judged my entry.
Tim

tim rudman · Feb 23, 2008

Martin Reed said:
snip snip
I did some printing on Fomatone glossy (with a standard warmtone dev.) a week or two ago & found it to be much yellower in base colour than when we first began importing it. I haven't tried lithing it yet, but fear the worst, the cadmium may have gone, & the base tint has been bigged-up to compensate. I think you have been holding it up as the last true resource for lith, Tim, so we'd better look into it.

This is worrying Martin - but expected. i am surprised they continued with their (alleged) cadmium emulsion so long after their country joined the EEC and received notice to discontinue Cd use (I was reliably informed).
I laid down a supply in anticipation - as I had done with the old Cd versions of Art Classic, Tapestry and Kentona.
I don't have room for any more freezers though!
Please let me know about the new batches when you can. If they are unchanged I will definitely stock up.
Tim

ic-racer · Feb 23, 2008

Ian Grant said:
I don't have the books here in Turkey but there are some Bob Carlos Clarke images from the 70's that look remarkably like Lith prints, probably made around the time he was at the Royal College of Art in London. I think he said he used a reprographics type paper

Carlos Clarke, Bob, Obsession, Quartet, UK, 1981
Carlos Clarke, Bob, The Illustrated Delta of Venus - with short stories by Anaïs Nin, published by WH Allen, 1980

Ian

My personal library is a little USA biased, thank you for the lead on Carlos. I saw the pictures on his website, but none had dates

If you are curious, here are two scans from the Becotte book. Sorry for the quality, but I didn't want to break the binding on this signed book.

If they don't look like lith printing to anyone, I'm 'all ears' to hear interpretations.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/1-Becottec1975.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/2-Becottec1975.jpg

dancqu · Feb 23, 2008

Martin Reed said:
Well, that's where the photographic lith terminology
came from, it's been hijacked from the original application,
high contrast film images for making lithographic plates.

That's where I first met lith developers, half-tone screens,
and high contrast films for offset printing. My point earlier
though has to do with the essence of lith processing,
infectious development and hydroquinone's potential
for. If I can create a lith developer and the results
we now associate with lith development and do
so with no intention, then I think it reasonable
to assume that infectious development was a
technique used as early as the late 1800s
when making prints.

Perhaps a search for 'lith' should be one for infectious
and or hydroquinone. Perhaps some obscure references
in old journals or darkroom worker's notes?

BTW, the half-tone screen. Which came first,
it or Kodalith? Dan

Martin Reed · Feb 24, 2008

It has to be the screen - from a history on the web;

....... (about 1885), Frederick Ives, an American, designed and made the first PRACTICAL halftone screen that consisted of two exposed glass negatives with lines scribed equidistant on each of them.
They were cemented together so that the lines would cross at right angles. (Max Levy, of Philadelphia, succeeded in 1890 in developing a precision manufacturing process for these screens.) An original photograph would be rephotographed while the halftone screen was placed in front of the new film. The squares created by the crossing of lines on the glass plates would focus the light coming from the original photograph into dots. The
lighter areas of the original, reflecting more light to the film, would be represented by large dots; the darker areas of the original reflected less light, resulting in smaller dots. Thus, a halftone negative was produced. The halftone process made possible the quality reproduction of original photographs without the need to engrave or draw them onto the printing plate.

Bob Carnie · Feb 24, 2008

I think the first one , racer definately could be a lith , the second one of the horse in the road does not. Heavy textured paper with a very long/strong toning .
When I first started with Lith I could not figure out how Mr Spry had done the prints and I would go really heavy with toning on a contrasty print and the second image, looks like that to me.

ic-racer said:
My personal library is a little USA biased, thank you for the lead on Carlos. I saw the pictures on his website, but none had dates

If you are curious, here are two scans from the Becotte book. Sorry for the quality, but I didn't want to break the binding on this signed book.

If they don't look like lith printing to anyone, I'm 'all ears' to hear interpretations.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/1-Becottec1975.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/ic-racer/2-Becottec1975.jpg

ic-racer · Feb 24, 2008

Bob Carnie said:
I think the first one , racer definately could be a lith , the second one of the horse in the road does not. Heavy textured paper with a very long/strong toning .
When I first started with Lith I could not figure out how Mr Spry had done the prints and I would go really heavy with toning on a contrasty print and the second image, looks like that to me.

Thanks for the input, and I hope others will give an opinion also.

Specifically this is what I am seeing in these images. When I look at other 1970s high-contrast work (i'm thinkinig Brandt and Ralph Gibson right now) one sees a good strong black, but the gray range can be limited. There are only a few grays. What I see in the lith technique is a way to get that good strong 'high-contrast' black, yet keep a good pallette of intermediate grays.

Another thing that I think I am seeing (but now I may be reading way too much into this) is the variability in his lith technique. For example, I did some lith prints last night and one of them got a lot less exposure and a lot more development than the others. It looked just like a regular old high contrast picture. It was a low contrast negative, so it just looked kind of 'normal.' This may explain why the two images look a little different in technique. Agan, just an opinion.

dancqu · Feb 24, 2008

Martin Reed said:
It has to be the screen - from a history ...
The lighter areas of the original, reflecting more
light to the film, would be represented by large dots;
the darker areas of the original reflected less light,
resulting in smaller dots.
Thus, a halftone negative was produced.

Halftone. "Thus, a halftone negative was produced."
I think it safe to say that what we today call a lith
developer was used. On that assumption infectious
development was a well known phenomenon
by the mid 1880s.

So, "... the history of Lith printing": When was
hydroquinone discovered? Dan

sun of sand · Feb 24, 2008

I found this guy a while back while looking through GEH.org
Paul L Baron
http://geh.org/ne/str117/htmlsrc/baron_sld00001.html
all Kodalith and very early 70's.
I didn't even notice (kodalith) till I went back to study his images of Rochester, NY and Santa Monica

I'd bet people were using lith developers way back

I'm finding "Kodalith Prints" with some frequency so perhaps these people were just using Kodalith developer ..or perhaps they were using actual Kodalith paper.

Les Krims was doing this stuff -either in developer or on actual Kodalith in late 60's
This guy is easy to find ..teaching here in buffalo so perhaps ask him where he learned it from?
Actually
Ask this guy
ask enough people you'll boil it down, I guess.

jd callow · Feb 25, 2008

SOS
Nice bit of history...

ic-racer · Feb 25, 2008

sun of sand said:
I found this guy a while back while looking through GEH.org
Paul L Baron
http://geh.org/ne/str117/htmlsrc/baron_sld00001.html
all Kodalith and very early 70's.
I didn't even notice (kodalith) till I went back to study his images of Rochester, NY and Santa Monica

I'd bet people were using lith developers way back

I'm finding "Kodalith Prints" with some frequency so perhaps these people were just using Kodalith developer ..or perhaps they were using actual Kodalith paper.

Les Krims was doing this stuff -either in developer or on actual Kodalith in late 60's
This guy is easy to find ..teaching here in buffalo so perhaps ask him where he learned it from?
Actually
Ask this guy
ask enough people you'll boil it down, I guess.

Great post, this is fantastic stuff.

I really like this one http://geh.org/ne/str117/htmlsrc/m197201670006_ful.html#topofimage.

They call it a "Kodalith" print. Looks like what I am calling a "lith" print. Now I wonder if the "Koda-" part just got dropped when this style re-appeared in the 90s.

ic-racer · Feb 25, 2008

So, I think the "History of Lith Printing" is really the "History of Kodalith Printing"

Here is another early reference: http://www.lightresearch.net/articles/handmade.html

"While completing his BFA at RIT (1971), Robert Hirsch began defying the modernist fine print aesthetic and its classical range of tonal values by printing his images on Kodak Kodalith paper."

The article further states:

"Kodak Kodalith paper was a thin, matt, orthochromatic graphic arts paper that was not intended for pictorial purposes. However, when it was used for pictorial expression its responsiveness to time and temperature controls during development enabled one to produce a wide range of grainy, high-contrast, and sepia tonal effects. Its unusual handling characteristics also meant that photographers had to pull the print at precisely the right moment from the developer and quickly get it into the stop bath, making each print unique."

Of course this last paragraph is nothing new to anyone reading this thread, it does, however, show that what a critic or historian is calling "Kodalith" is essentially the same as "lith" printing.

Alan Johnson · Feb 25, 2008

Not an answer to the question re practical use,but infectious development of graphic arts film for the production of half-tone images was proposed to be due to the catalytic effect of the oxidation of hydroquinone by Frotschner,1937, and investigated by Yule, 1945.
Photographic Processing Chemistry, LFA Mason 2nd Ed 1975 p 165.

dancqu · Feb 25, 2008

ic-racer said:
So, I think the "History of Lith Printing" is really the
"History of Kodalith Printing"

Before Kodak there was "lith printing". If I then others
many many years ago could, by experimenting, concoct
a lith developer and produce lith prints. For the history
of 'lith' printing I'd start with the introduction of
hydroquinone. Very likely it's introduction drew
a lot of attention.

Journals from that time will likely expose hydroquinone's
infectious nature used alone with film or paper. Dan

ic-racer · Feb 25, 2008

dancqu said:
Before Kodak there was "lith printing". If I then others
many many years ago could, by experimenting, concoct
a lith developer and produce lith prints. For the history
of 'lith' printing I'd start with the introduction of
hydroquinone. Very likely it's introduction drew
a lot of attention.

Journals from that time will likely expose hydroquinone's
infectious nature used alone with film or paper. Dan

Yes, I see, it would have been possible. I can't think of a 'pre-Kodalith' image offhand. Though, if I consider the 1860s, it is curious how good the darks are in many Civil War photos, when you know those lenses were low contrast. Do you have a timeline for hydroquinone?

Another thing to consider would be the historical use of 'development by inspection' during printing.

Alan Johnson · Feb 26, 2008

HQ formulas were used to develop paper c1902 but the presence of significant sulfite in most of these early formulas would prevent the catalytic reaction so they would not work as lith developers.Yule recommended 1g/L sulfite for half-tone dot negatives. Early HQ formulas are on p 0494-8 here:
www.rodsmith.org.uk/photographic-dictionary/index.html

tomkatf · Feb 26, 2008

Les Krims...

Was the first photographer I remember using the "lith *paper* look" for a majority(all?) of his work, c.1970. A San Francisco photographer I remember around that time using litho *film* in a more usual way was Thomas Weir. Weir used several generations of Kodalith internegatives/positives to create high contrast but full scale appearing, almost pointillistic images. I remember a fisheye nude portfolio ("The Virgin Forest") using this look in Avant Garde magazine.

Best,
Tom

ic-racer · Feb 27, 2008

So, from what I have learned so far I would state the following.

Definition of 'lith printing': Lith printing is characterized by (a)printing paper development by inspection and (b) chemical presence of 'infectious development' in the materials used for (c) the production of a full or limited gray scale, but not pure black and white.

History Time Line:
a) Pre-Kodalith period. Hypothetical period where photographers may have used and or created lith-type materials for pictoral purposes, prior to packaging and mass marketing as Lithography tools.
b) Kodalith period. Characterized by works of Les Krims, Michael Becotte, Thomas Weir, Robert Hirsch, Paul L Baron and many others.
c) Post Kodalith period. Characterized by the works of Corbijn and many others (including us). Also characterized increased awareness of the technnique and by multiple books and articles on the topic along with marketing of photographic materials specifically for the purpose of lith printing as defined above.

Martin Reed · Feb 27, 2008

[QUOTE......
History Time Line:.................
b) Kodalith period................
c) Post Kodalith period. ...............[/QUOTE]

I hate to muddy the water a bit, but after the FB Kodalith LP was discontinued there were Kodak RC versions that carried on until maybe 10 years? ago, the main ones being Kodalith 'Kodak Rapid' and Kodalith TP5. Kodak Rapid seemed to work the best, at least it was the most popular, so of course went first, and TP5 carried on I think, until everything Kodalith was wound up. These two certainly gave the tone & colour, but prints lacked the 'presence' of the FB original. Also the paper was in 100 sheet boxes, which being quite an outlay limited the number of practitioners using them. There was also an Agfa RC one
whose name eludes me.

David Lingham · Feb 27, 2008

I've just read the lith chapter in Gene Nocon book. It states there he won the Ilford printer of the year in 1980 with a print made on Ilford IRP 110, which at the time of writing the book,1987, had been discontinued. He also mentions Kodalith LP and Agfa L 720 RC litex. There are three examples in the book, two made for Barry Lategan, one for English Vogue using IRP 110 and the other for Vogue italia on LP.

dancqu · Feb 27, 2008

ic-racer said:
Definition of 'lith printing': Lith printing is characterized
by (a)printing paper development by inspection ...

And the easier the inspection when using Graded paper.
The high level of yellow to orange safelighting makes
for easy viewing of the print as it progresses.

Contrast control is in the method itself. Dan

Anyone know the history of Lith printing?

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