Anyone know how to make positive transparencies from negative b&W film?

Vassil

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HI, I wonder if I can achieve good positive transparencies from a negative b&w film, using b&w negative film. I.e. if I have a negative b&w film and I want to make positive transparencies of it, can I use negative b&w film to convert it to positives with nice quality, like good dynamic range and smooth tones? For example I have Kodak T-Max 100 negatives and want to convert them to positive transparencies, can I use also T-Max 100 film to convert them to positives with rich contrast and if it is possible what kind of developer should I use? Maybe a high contrast developer or simply a D-76 with longer developing time? Or should I use a lith film to achieve optimal contrast and neutral b&w tones as the T-Max films have some magenta cast?
 
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JPD

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Since you already have the negatives you can make contact copies on film in the darkroom. Rollei Ortho 25 Plus may be good for this, and since it's ortho film you can use a red safelight and develop in trays. Rollei Ortho 25 Plus is a contrasty film, so perhaps the Rollei RLC (low contrast film developer) works best. But if high contrast is what you want then D-76 should be fine with this film.
 

Europan

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Dedicated positive film is available from various makers. Orwo PF 2 and PF 2 plus, Kodak cine pos, and microfilm pos. These stocks develop softer than Rollei ortho and are cheaper in long rolls. Nothing against Rollei films, though. To make transparencies from negatives is very rewarding.
 

railwayman3

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I can just remember, as a kid, my grandfather showing me how to make B&W transparencies by contact-printings negs onto "positive film". This could be bought very cheaply as rolls of 35mm and packs of sheet film from the small ads in the back of "Amateur Photographer" (probably Government Surplus stocks ! ) and worked just like a slow printing paper, using yellow/orange safelight and dish development with usual paper dev and fixer. Very easy, even for a 7 y.o. (Sorry, reminsicing,,,,, )
 

Kino

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A short-end of Kodak 2302 or 5302 Fine Grain Release Positive or Orwo PF2 would be the ticket.

You could modify a spare enlarger negative carrier to sandwich the negative and positive stocks (emulsion to emulsion) for the copying rig and just place it in the enlarger to expose the positive (negative toward the light source, of course). You'll have to experiment with exposures, but since this type of positive stock is pretty slow it should be easy to dial-in an average time for exposure for an average negative.

As stated above, it is largely blue sensitive and can be handled under yellow safelights for easy contact printing and Dektol can be used to process the positive strip.

To avoid having wildly varying results, develop the positive with time/temperature and NOT by visual inspection; densities are hard to judge in a transparency submerged in a tray...
 

Raghu Kuvempunagar

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Wallendo

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You can also find inexpensive Leitz Wetzlar film duplicators inexpensively. It does require a darkroom and ortho film to use as directed - although I have seen videos pf people who have used regular B&W film.

You do need to make sure that whichever film you use has a clear base.
 

guangong

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As I read your opening remarks, I understood it not as if you wanted to make slides out of pre-existing negatives, but rather if you could make slides out of what would be normally thought of as film for making prints from negatives.
The answer is yes...with reservations. Most films we use for making prints do not have a clear base, but are lightly tinted. Films designed for projection have a clearer support. Clearest of all were movies made with cellulose nitrate support before advent of “safety film” which have a sparkle not seen since.
The Ilford web page has instructions on how to make slides using ilford film. If you find you like the process and results you may try to find a source for buying short ends of 35mm vine film. I would not buy a whole roll of cine film, because it dies not keep well. At one time I was able to buy a clear support Fomapan 100R in 36 exposure cassettes, but can no longer find it for sale.
 

runswithsizzers

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The way I read his question, the OP is mainly concerned with making positive slides from negatives which already exist. If so, then he is past the point where developing the negatives as positives is an option.

I will leave it to others to suggest all-analog workflows. Making a negative of a negative results in a positive, but it will probably take some trial and error to get the density and contrast needed for good projection. I assume the goal is to project the images, right? Ideally, whatever film you use to copy your negatives with will have a much higher maximum density than most negative films, and a clear base.

Another option might be to digitize the b&w negatives - either by scanning or photographing them with a digital camera - then invert the image in Photoshop. After adjusting for contrast, etc. there are online services which can output the digital file to slide film. A couple of randomly selected slide-from-digital services <here> and <here> (those are not recommendations, as I have never used their services).
 
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Adrian Bacon

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Ilford ortho Film is good for this. You can either make a contact print, or an enlargement. It has good Dmax and you can treat it like a fixed grade paper.

I’m actually in the middle of a project where I’m making some slides of some photos of my kids that I shot on normal bw film. Each slide is going to be mounted in a frame and backlit so you have a lit positive image.
 

cmacd123

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x302 or ORWO PF2 is the stuff for that - also Called "Fine Grain Release positive film" these days it is often only on a polyester base.

contact paper speed or a touch faster, and Blue sensitive so safe-light friendly. clear base and develops nicely in print developer. As mentioned Photo warehouse probaly has it on cut down rolls in stock. (Kodak sells it on 2000ft rolls.)
 

AgX

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jnantz said:
You can do a search for reversal development
Click to expand...
To my understanding the OP wants to proceed from a negative film that already has been processed. Thus copying it into a positive transparency
 

runswithsizzers

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I am trying to understand how a "positive" film can work for this purpose. My only experience with what I would call a positive film is Adox Scala 160 - and if you used that to copy a black & white negative (or make a contact print), the result would be another b&w negative, right? Just the same as if using color slide film.

So there must be something different about "Orwo PF 2 and PF 2 plus, Kodak cine pos, and microfilm pos" and Kodak 5302? How is the negative image (which is what the OP already has) converted to a positive using "positive" film?

Is this a case of the word "positive" having two different meanings, as in:
a. positive, meaning takes a positive image just like slide film, and therefore does *not* reverse a copy of a negative to a positive (EDIT: Maybe I should be calling this "reversal" film instead of positive film to avoid confusion?)
- OR,
b. positive, short for positive print film, designed to make a positive print from negative film, and therefore would create a negative if used to photograph any subject other than a negative ?

What am I missing here?
 
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AgX

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The term "positive" film is ambiguous.

-) in the cine world it means a negative film intended as copy film to produce a positive from a negative

-) in the still world it sometimes is used to indicate a taking film
that
-) is reversal processesd to from a positive
-) is directly (one stage processing) forming a positive
 

runswithsizzers

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Ahh, as I suspected. Thanks for that confirmation!
 

runswithsizzers

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If the OP was to use a cine positive print film such as Kodak 5302 Fine Grain Release Positive or Orwo PF2, is development of those films in a reel+tank, diy home process similar to developing normal b&w negative film?

I did a quick search for Kodak 5302, and Kodak's instructions were for developing long strips in commercial equipment. I assume it is also possible to develop the cine films in small tanks. But are the needed chemicals commonly available, and is the process more like developing normal b&w negatives - or is it more complex like "reversal" processing of Scala / Fomapan ?
 

AgX

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Yes, similar, if not same processing.
The standard developer for cine b&w films is Kodak D-96 and its clones. D-96 is made as small volume concentrate by Bellini.

However I do not see a reason not to use still film developer. For the copy film one should choose one that does not exagerate grain, nor rises contrast, D-76 for instance.

(Both though contain Metol, which is a strong allergen.)
 

Kino

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Sorry, but I must disagree. D97 is the standard positive developer and D96 is the standard negative developer for B&W cine film.

D97 is more like Dektol than D-76; a high energy developer which produces the required contrast for direct projection of positive transparencies. That is why I suggested you substitute Dektol in it's place. It will produce roughly equivalent results without having to mix a custom batch of D97.
 
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AgX

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Yes you are right, there are two standard cine film developers.
But Filmotec advises D-96 for both their cine negative as well as their cine duplicate positive films. Yes, they advise D-97 for their print films.

However as we do not know to what gamma the OP's negatives were devloped (likey with printing in mind) and whether he wants to make transparencies in general or slides for projection, I refered to the first developer. Maybe though I am off by this.
It would be interesting to see the reults from both in comparison.
 
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Kino

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Agreed, experimentation is suggested, as hand development is rarely exactly to the 0.65 gamma aim point that machine processing provides consistently.

However, it is a good starting point...
 

Louis Nargi

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I never tried this but years ago I heard you could make a positive out of Tri-x
 

cmacd123

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AgX said:
Yes you are right, there are two standard cine film developers.
But Filmotec advises D-96 for both their cine negative as well as their cine duplicate positive films. Yes, they advise D-97 for their print films.
Click to expand...

The traditional way to make B&W prints for theatrical motion pictures WAS:

1) Shoot on MP negative. (make a positive print and use that to decide how to edit.- Known as a "Work Print") camera negative developed in D96 (or originally D76)
2) Cut and splice the original camera negative to match the edited work print - Movie Negative has a consetutive number every foot on the edge to make this easier.
3) print that original Negative as a "Master Positive" on "duplicating positive film. (developed in D96) (sometimes referred to as a "Lavender")
4) use the Master positive to make one or more "Printing Negatives" on duplicating Negative film.
5) use the printing negative to make a "Release print" on PF2 or 5302/2302/3302. this uses D97

the Master positives and master negatives tend to be on a grey base film. the release print film has a clear base. These days some labs just use the same type of stock to make both the Master positive and Printing negative.

the extra steps are to protect the one camera negative from damage and wear in the printing process .. Their is a separate process and a sound Negative to get the sound track on the release print. But the sound Negative is only introduced in the release printing stage.
NONE of the traditional steps involve a reversal process,

Dektol or simalar is the developer recommended for 5302 when working from still B&W negatives. Contrast is controled in the still darkroom by adjusting exposure and development time.
 
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