Anyone here ever adapted a Helios 44 with M39 mount?

[5BucksAtThriftStore]

So I got a little trigger happy on the ole' ebay the other night and bought a Helios 44 58mm f/2 from Ukraine and did not think things through very well at all. I now am the "proud" owner of this original 13 blade version of the Helios 44 with an M39 screwmount and not exactly sure what the is the best way to actually go about using it. I know I could adapt it to a mirrorless camera fairly easy and I have a Fuji X-T2 that has been collecting dust, but I really would like to use it to shoot film. I have some Canon FD bodies and it would be fun to use it with my New F-1, but I also have a K1000 that seems like it *may* be easier and cheaper to use it with as well, but I don't know what is truth vs fiction regarding how well it will actually work using the little M39 to M42 threaded adapter and then mounting that to an M42 to K-Mount adapter and being able to fully focus, will it hit the mirror, etc.

Google has not been much help (and has been getting worse the past year or so when it comes to actually finding useful info, honestly) but has been great at trying to sell me adapters that do not have any relation to what I am actually looking for.

So I pose the question, has anyone succesfully adapted an M39 Helios 44 to either FD or K-mount?

 

[xkaes]

The important thing is what the flange focal length is for the Helios 44. Do you know? If it was designed to be used on a Leica rangefinder, you are out of luck without some major modification. Do you know what camera it was designed for? It was probably made for the Zenit SLR cameras -- educated guess.

The Zenit M39 SLR mount is 45.2 mm flange focal distance and the M42 is 45.46 mm. If this is the case, you've got a problem.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

I suppose the problem is at infinity, right? The Zenit lens wants to be 0.26mm closer to the film than your Pentax will let it be. I don't know how much of a problem this is really. It may be that you can get close enough to infinity and stop down.

Another way to use this lens with film would be to buy yourself a 39mm Zenit. I have several, and I like their simplicity. OTOH, they are all pretty old. Look carefully at condition when you're buying. The lens would be 'native' on a 3M I think: anything older should have an Industar 50 or 22.

I have a Leica adapter for my mirrorless, and I put my Zenit lenses on that, with an extension tube to make up the length. This is one of a set of KMZ tubes, which are 13mm, *16.4mm* and 26mm long. That middle one makes my SLR lenses behave close enough to the rangefinder lenses to work. KMZ obviously thought it would work; when they made these, they chose the length of that middle tube specifically to let you fit Zenit lenses onto a Zorki; you would be relying on scale focus so it would need to be reasonably accurate. I have the luxury of a TTL view with the mirrorless.

 

[_T_]

The Canon FD ffd is 42mm so it might be possible to adapt depending on the adapter but 3.2mm is not a lot of material to work with.

The K mount would be at least 0.26mm off with an ideal adapter but who knows how far off it will really be without an adapter in hand.

At infinity focus with the flange off by .26mm you would be able to focus up to 12.996m away which would mean you would have to stop down to f/11 to make the maximum focus distance the hyperfocal distance. But again the plane of sharp focus can only go as far as about 13 meters away.

And if the adapter adds even 1mm of ffd to the system you’re looking at not being able to focus past 3.5 meters and no possibility of getting the depth of field beyond 4 meters when stopped all the way down to f/16

Which could still work. You could still do all kinds of portraits and closer work.

The good news is you have about 18mm of ffd to play with in terms of adapters for k mount before the lens is useless for shooting people and you can only do close up stuff. And 21mm of additional ffd for FD bodies before you can’t really take pictures of people anymore so there’s a good shot you could still get some good use out of the lens with the right adapter on either camera.

 

[reddesert]

I've never used the M39 to M42 thin threaded ring adapter. But it's only a few dollars on ebay, worth an experiment.

The M42 to Pentax K mount adapters are pretty common, and Pentax itself made one. IIRC, I have used a similar one for M42 to Yashica. The thing about these adapters, which I think some respondents are missing, is that the rear diameter of the M42 lens mount is smaller than most subsequent camera bayonet mount openings. Thus, adapter rings can sit inside or partly inside the bayonet mount, which is why you can adapt an M42 lens to K even though the M42 and K mounts have the same flange-focal distance - the adapter adds no length. You have to be a little careful installing and removing the adapter since there is nothing sticking out to grab onto.

I don't think the Helios rear element will hit the mirror (certainly the Helios-44M in M42 does not). You're going to need the M42 to K or to FD adapter anyway if you get a different Helios-44M in M42. Or just get an M42 body, there are lots of inexpensive ones.

 

[5BucksAtThriftStore]

The thing about these adapters, which I think some respondents are missing, is that the rear diameter of the M42 lens mount is smaller than most subsequent camera bayonet mount openings. Thus, adapter rings can sit inside or partly inside the bayonet mount, which is why you can adapt an M42 lens to K even though the M42 and K mounts have the same flange-focal distance - the adapter adds no length.

This is what I was kind of thinking too. I know that the M42 to K Mount is basically nothing but a tiny metal ring that hooks onto the bayonet mount and the M39 to M42 adapter is just a small flaring screw thread that also seems to be tiny as well. But I was just wondering if anyone out in the real world has experience doing this as with the Helios 44 in the M39 mount or any other M39 lens sharing the same mount for that matter.

 

[xkaes]

Multiple adapters -- even if they are microscopically thin -- will be a waste of time in this situation. All they do is ADD distance. This lens needs LESS distance.

The Zenit M39 SLR mount is 45.2 mm flange focal distance and the M42 is 45.46 mm.

 

[xkaes]

AND impress your friends!!!

 

[5BucksAtThriftStore]

Ehhhhh.. not really trying to buy another camera to use a single lens and that isn't exactly a helpful answer to my question.

Like I said earlier, I have seen around the internet where people have been able to modify or adapt these lenses to mirrorless cameras and other film bodies as well, but haven't been able to nail down what would be the best way to do so. My googling has turned up different results from shaving down a ring inside the lens body to different adapters and what not so I am wondering if anyone here has had luck doing anything like that to get these working on other mounts like Pentax K or Canon FD.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

isn't exactly a helpful answer to my question

Well pardon us for breathing. Seems to me it really is a sensible option (and my 1953 Zenit does impress my friends). Your other options all involve either spending money on adapters or machining, or expending time and effort on making something. Or I guess you could try to swap the lens for something else on the sale/wanteds here?


I once had a lens from a folding camera I'd bought on Ebay, that was worse than I hoped when it arrived (the shutter was dead and not mendable, at least by me). So I adapted that to my Canon AE-1 and A-1. It wasn't fine engineering; I did it for fun, and it was fun.

* I took out the shutter blades, but left the lens sitting in the shutter barrel. Your lens doesn't need that step.
* I got a Canon body cap, and a set of 42mm extension tubes. I found that one of the tubes was very close to the right length to get the lens to sit at infinity focus. I found a way to make the lens barrel fit into one end of the extension tube (IIRC, this was just that the retaining ring just fitted in: and I could use its screw thread to adjust the lens position a little).
* I cut a circle out of the body cap. The plastic isn't what you'd choose to do this with; it wants to crack and ruin your day. I needed a second attempt with a fresh cap.
* I glued the whole thing lightly together, checked I had infinity focus close enough, and then covered the weak joint at the camera end with epoxy glue.
* It works well enough. The lens has front-element focus, and still has its iris. On the AE-1 I can do stopped-down metering with it. On the A-1 it's even better; I can do a sort of aperture-priority auto. I have an FD 85mm f/1.8, so I don't need this lens, but as I said, it's for fun. Here's what it looked like:



A previous poster said you have about 3mm to play with; Maybe you could fit your lens into a body cap like this. You wouldn't need the extension ring. OTOH I bet your lens is heavier than mine, and the body cap might not be strong enough. If your lens came with the original KMZ bakelite rear cap, you could cut the middle out of that, and use the rest as a retaining ring? I'd be reluctant to do that, unless I really couldn't get anything else 39mm.
Anyhow, all that effort might let you avoid buying an adorable Zenit. Good luck!

 

[xkaes]

Like I said earlier, I have seen around the internet where people have been able to modify or adapt these lenses to mirrorless cameras and other film bodies as well, but haven't been able to nail down what would be the best way to do so. My googling has turned up different results from shaving down a ring inside the lens body to different adapters and what not so I am wondering if anyone here has had luck doing anything like that to get these working on other mounts like Pentax K or Canon FD.

There isn't any "one way". Why? Because it depends on what you are trying to adapt it to.

You already know what the FFL of the lens is (see above). Then subtract the FFL of the camera that you want to put it on. If the result is MINUS, you can't do it. If it's POSITIVE, YOU have to figure out what adapter(s) are out there to fit in between. Good luck with that.

 

[5BucksAtThriftStore]

Well pardon us for breathing.

I'm not trying to be short with you or anyone else, but it's not exactly helpful to suggest just get another camera. I've seen different forums and posts where people have adapted this lens to fit on an M42 adapter and was curious if anyone else has been able to do it here and if they could provide any insight into how they got it to work.

Also:

If the result is MINUS, you can't do it. If it's POSITIVE, YOU have to figure out what adapter(s) are out there to fit in between. Good luck with that.

.. Isn't being helpful at all.

No need to be a dick and condescending and providing non-answers to my question.

I remember now why I've been a lurker on here for so long.

 

[gorbas]

Just buy M39 to M42 ring for like 2$ and you are set to use it with M42 cameras or adapters. You may or may not have full infinity, but that can be dealt with too. Happy owner of the same lens
Edit: I just checked the lens on my Spotmatic and M42-Sony E K&F adapter. You will be fine, no worry with infinity at all. Your lens focusing distance scale will be off but by focusing on the camera screen you will be OK.

 

[MattKing]

Moderator hat on:
Folks, tone it down with the remarks about each other's contributions.
And if someone gives advice or opinions that don't appeal to you, criticizing them for contributing in the way they did adds nothing to the value of the thread or the community - that advice or those opinions may very well help others.
The corollary though is that the appropriate response to such criticism is in most cases - ignore it, unless there is something helpful in it.
Hat off now.