Anyone have experience with Arista / Unicolor RA-4 Kit?

[Dave@Toronto]

Hi All. I picked up an RA-4 kit which I believe is made by Arista (but says Unicolor on the box). I haven't done any color printing before but looking forward to giving it a go. I'm wondering if anyone has used this stuff before and could answer some newbie questions I have.

My questions are these:

1. I've seen that with other RA4 chemicals (e.g. Kodak), people use a pre-rinse as well as a stop bath between developer and Blix. This product's instructions do not mention pre-rinse or stop bath, and simply gives times for Dev, Blix, and Wash. Do you think I should be adding in a pre-rinse to bring the paper to temp and using a stop bath (e.g. to extend blix life)? Or should I assume these instructions are complete and that these steps should not be included?

2. The instructions recommend using the chemicals one-shot to get most consistent results but I think I'm going to try and stretch them, especially while I'm learning. They give replenishment examples but I don't fully understand how replenishment works. If it say replenishment rate is "8.3ml per 8x10 sheet", and my drum takes 120ml... do I add 8.3ml of fresh chemicals to that 120ml after the first print, and then add another 8.3ml to that after the second print? And do I keep only using 120ml at a time, or always use put the entire new amount of chemicals (120ml, then 128ml, then 136, etc.)? And at what point do you stop trying to do this replenishment and consider the it all spent... Sorry if this is a naïve question or I'm asking it wrong. I've not been able to find a beginners explanation of how replenishment works.

Here is a digital version of the instructions it came with if you'd like to see: https://www.argentix.ca/specs/RA4-en-process.pdf

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, Arista is a house brand name owned by Freestyle, and doesn't really have any manufacturing capacity.
Unicolor probably is the brand name of the manufacturer.
And those instructions seem to recommend replenishment rather than one shot use.
To do replenishment, the easiest way to work is to:
1) make up a reasonable quantity of working solution - say 150 ml into one of two measuring graduates at least 250 ml or so in size;
2) each time you develop a print, pour 120 ml into the developing tube, leaving 30 ml;
3) add 8.3 ml of the replenisher to the 30 ml left;
4) when the print is developed, pour the approximately 120 ml of used developer back into the second measuring graduate;
5) then pour enough of that used developer from the second measuring graduate into the first measuring graduate to bring the total volume in the first measuring graduate back to 150 ml. You will still have a small amount of used developer in the second graduate - discard it. You will be left with the first graduate with 150 ml of replenished developer, and a second empty graduate.
6) repeat each time you process an 8x10 or equivalent.
It is important to both add new replenisher, and subtract (discard) a portion of used developer each time.
If the initial volume of 150 ml is something that you find awkward to work with, you might want to try 200 or 250 ml instead. As a matter of practicality, you can also use a larger initial amount - say 400 ml - and replenish with enough for three 8x10s (3x8.3 = 25ml) every three prints instead - but only if you use a larger initial amount, and make sure you are pouring back into that amount as much of the used developer as you can.
Don't try to do this without the second graduate, because pouring out the developer from the tube needs to happen quickly and consistently.
Hope this helps.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Depends on the specific Arista product. The one I have used is identical in performance and apparently even ingredients to Kodak Ra/Rt kits, as well as the Silver Pixel kits which Freestyle also sells. I only use these products one-shot in drums, and never replenish, and mix only enough at a time for a single day's session. I ALWAYS pre-wet before development, and use a weak stop bath between Dev and Blix. My standard dev is 2 min at 83F.

 

[btaylor]

When I used drums I always did one shot on the chemistry, but of course you could try replenishment- it does add another layer of complexity, and as you will probably be focused on color correction and density do you really want the headache? One shot also guarantees consistency- if you are trying to get the other elements right maybe “waste” a little chemistry for that consistency. Also, an 8x10 drum only requires 60ml, or 2 oz of chemistry- not a lot. Have fun, I enjoy RA4 printing quite a bit.

 

[Dave@Toronto]

Thanks for your answers, much appreciated!

@MattKing Glad I asked, definitely would not have arrived at that conclusion otherwise. To confirm my understanding, if I were to do this with 400ml working solution:

1) Mix 400ml of developer into measuring graduate A.
2) Process 3 8x10 prints, using 120ml each time, and each time emptying tank into measuring graduate B. This leaves us with 40ml of fresh chemical in measuring graduate A after 3 prints.
3) Add 3x8.3ml (25ml) of replenisher into graduate A.
4) Pour from B into A, until A has 400ml again, and discard the remaining 40ml in B.

When I used drums I always did one shot on the chemistry, but of course you could try replenishment- it does add another layer of complexity, and as you will probably be focused on color correction and density do you really want the headache? One shot also guarantees consistency- if you are trying to get the other elements right maybe “waste” a little chemistry for that consistency. Also, an 8x10 drum only requires 60ml, or 2 oz of chemistry- not a lot. Have fun, I enjoy RA4 printing quite a bit.

I agree that maybe replenishment is one more thing to worry about that I should do once I'm more comfortable with the process. The instructions do say towards the end "We recommend one-shot chemical use for print consistency". That said, they give full replenishment instructions so it should work. Maybe I'll try one-shot to get my feet wet and then move on to replenishment after the first session.

Regarding the tank size, I'm going to be using a Jobo 2830 drum. It actually takes 100ml, not 120ml as I stated (not sure where I got 120ml from, but continued using 120 in the example above for consistency). With 4L costing over $100 here in Canada, that's pretty expensive for only 40 prints if used one-shot. I do have a "Test Drum" tank which only takes 40ml so that will help.

I ALWAYS pre-wet before development, and use a weak stop bath between Dev and Blix. My standard dev is 2 min at 83F.

Great to know, thanks!

 

[mklw1954]

For learning, I would also recommend one-shot chemical use because the main thing that you will be trying to get down is proper exposure and color filtration settings and you don't need another variable with the chemistry. One-shot also allows you to skip stop baths because reuse gradually contaminates your solutions, and a stop bath helps minimize that. Following the chemical suppliers' instructions is recommended, especially when starting out. You can try stretching the chemicals after you learn to produce good prints, but keep any cost savings in perspective, i.e., considering the cost of your film, going places to shoot, print paper, your time, etc. Stretching chemicals is usually only a benefit if you are making large quantities of prints.

I have been making RA-4 prints for the last 12 years, using Kodak RA-4 chemicals and drums. Once you learn you can make beautiful prints, so good luck.

 

[halfaman]

I recomend also to use one-shot developer, specially in a low volume Jobo-like rotary processing. You will have a more consistent and easier to control process.

 

[MattKing]

@MattKing Glad I asked, definitely would not have arrived at that conclusion otherwise. To confirm my understanding, if I were to do this with 400ml working solution:

1) Mix 400ml of developer into measuring graduate A.
2) Process 3 8x10 prints, using 120ml each time, and each time emptying tank into measuring graduate B. This leaves us with 40ml of fresh chemical in measuring graduate A after 3 prints.
3) Add 3x8.3ml (25ml) of replenisher into graduate A.
4) Pour from B into A, until A has 400ml again, and discard the remaining 40ml in B.

That is correct. Most likely, the amount you discard will be approximately 25ml (equal to the amount of replenisher added) rather than 40ml. I say approximately, because a pre-wet will increase the volume, but developer remaining on the print/in the tube after the tube is emptied will decrease the discard volume.

I'm of two minds about the advice to use it one shot. If you are working with the the larger volume Kodak or similar chemicals (much less expensive per print), I'm in total agreement. The kits, however, are extraordinarily expensive to use one shot.
I'm also generally a bit of a replenishment evangelist as well.

 

[Dave@Toronto]

I'll go with the community wisdom here and start with one-shot until I've got a baseline and feel confident that I'm able to produce good prints (and able to quickly identify if it's the chemicals vs. my technique causing a problem). Thanks for the well wishes.

One-shot also allows you to skip stop baths because reuse gradually contaminates your solutions, and a stop bath helps minimize that. .

Good point!

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I'll go with the community wisdom here and start with one-shot until I've got a baseline and feel confident that I'm able to produce good prints (and able to quickly identify if it's the chemicals vs. my technique causing a problem). Thanks for the well wishes.

Good point!

I'm about to start, using Jobo 2830 drums at room temp. For me, replenishment is a question of having a large working to discard volume ratio, i.e. 500:60. WIth a Jobo, it's 60:60. I don't know if someone could do 60:30, but Kodak RA-4 is pretty cheap, and it hardly seems worth it.

 

[Rafael Saffirio]

I use it one shot diluted 1+4 for 90 seconds (120 if it's too cold). good enough to my eyes.

 

[focus_on_infinity]

I use it one shot diluted 1+4 for 90 seconds (120 if it's too cold). good enough to my eyes.

Do you mean you do 1+4 for 120 sec at room temperature? It seems like a lot of people say room temp is fine. If that's the case, I'd be pretty happy to skip all the extra complexity.

 

[Rafael Saffirio]

Do you mean you do 1+4 for 120 sec at room temperature?

Yes, exactly
I have done some test and the difference in color between stock and 1+4 is so slight (for me) that doesn't justify the extra spend in chemicals,