Anyone else using Labyrinth Film Cassettes?

Would someone please expand how these labyrinth type cassettes work? I have only used (and seen) pop-up cap & felt cassettes so far.

On top of all, I don't get if they are brand-specific (with the obvious exception of the Shirley Wellard "Universal"). Do Zeiss-Ikon cassettes fit only Zeiss-Ikon cameras, for example?

Then I don't get what happens exactly when the feeding slot is "opened" to allow film advance. Will this open a huge "mouth" on the side of the cassette? Can it be done in daylight, or the film will be exposed by light passing through said "mouth"?

Finally, I don't get if this cassette type can be used in daylight-type spooling machines.

grain elevator said:

I find it hard to believe that, at least with dilute developers which would be near exhaustion after development of a full roll, the absence of exhaustion and less build-up of restraining bromides in the solution would have no effect on contrast. I'd start with a time on the short side at least, if you're using a dilute developer.

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There is no end to this. Then you should also worry whether you have a predominance of frames with a few sunlit flowers against a dark background or a dark figure against a sunlit building placed on ZVII. The demands on the reducer (metol, ascorbic acid, whatever...) might change by a factor of 2.

Marco Gilardetti said:

Would someone please expand how these labyrinth type cassettes work? I have only used (and seen) pop-up cap & felt cassettes so far.

On top of all, I don't get if they are brand-specific (with the obvious exception of the Shirley Wellard "Universal"). Do Zeiss-Ikon cassettes fit only Zeiss-Ikon cameras, for example?

Then I don't get what happens exactly when the feeding slot is "opened" to allow film advance. Will this open a huge "mouth" on the side of the cassette? Can it be done in daylight, or the film will be exposed by light passing through said "mouth"?

Finally, I don't get if this cassette type can be used in daylight-type spooling machines.

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They only work with certain cameras and many cassettes are incompatible. The cameras that can use them have a latch for locking the back or bottom that is a "key" you turn on the baseplate, under the film supply chamber. When you turn the key, it rotates a piece inside the chamber at the base of the cassette.

On a regular cassette, this rotation does nothing, but on a labyrinth cassette that has an inner and outer shell, it rotates one of the shells so that the two slots line up and the film feeds straight into the film gate without a light trap. When you turn the key to open the back/bottom, it closes the cassette.

The film would be immediately light struck if the slot is opened outside the camera. I think there's often an interlock to prevent inadvertently opening the cassette, such as a button on top of the cassette that is pressed when the cassette is inside the camera.

It's a good question whether these are compatible with daylight bulk loaders. Obviously they are intended to be bulk loaded, but I think only some bulk loaders are compatible with them, for the rest you'd have to start and finish the film in a changing bag, although you could crank the loader outside the bag once it was closed.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply!

As at least in the case of 135 I like to use many different cameras, I think this kind of cassettes won't be of any help.

I have one daylight loader that will close my Zeiss Ikon cassettes when you turn the knob. I can never tell which one does that so most of the time I just load the film in the bathroom. I shut off the lights when I'm ready to open the loader. You can easily feel if the cassette is still open and then close it if necessary,

My Zeiss cassettes were compatible with my Contax II, Contax III, Contaflex and Contarex cameras since these were all manufactured around the same time. Your instruction manual would tell you.

The Leica cassettes were a slightly different size between the Barnack cameras and the M cameras.

It has been quite awhile since I've used the Leica cassettes but I use the Zeiss cassettes quite a bit. In the camera they work really nice and I've never had any scratches on my film from using them.

The FILCA was designed to work with the Barnacks. It is too tall to fit in the M Leicas.

The IXMOO was designed to work with the M Leicas. It is roughly the same height as the Kodak cassettes It can be used with the M cameras up to the middle of the M6 run, and it can be used with the Barnacks.

Neither the IXMOO or the Kodak, i.e., modern cassettes are a really good fit with the Barnacks. The top of the sprocket holes will sometimes appear at the bottom of the image. There are work arounds.

The Watson 100 is the only bulk loader I have found that really works properly with both the FILCA and the IXMOO. It has a shim that keeps the IXMOO firmly in place and is removed to accommodate the FILCA. I have also modified an Alden 74 to work with both types of Leica cassettes.

JerseyDoug said:

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The Watson 100 is the only bulk loader I have found that really works properly with both the FILCA and the IXMOO. It has a shim that keeps the IXMOO firmly in place and is removed to accommodate the FILCA. I have also modified an Alden 74 to work with both types of Leica cassettes.

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The Füllfix loaders work even better than the Watsons, in my opinion; but they're a bit less easy to come across (I have four of them, though).