Anyone brewing up their own lith developers?

[brian steinberger]

I'm looking to start lith printing, and have a bunch of chems and was wondering if anyone has some recipies that I can follow to mix up my own two part lith developer. Thanks!

 

[Ian Grant]

There are a lot of Lith dev formulae on Unblinkingeye

Ian

 

[Cor]

There are a lot of Lith dev formulae on Unblinkingeye

Ian

I almost always mix my own lith developer, it's the D-85 formula (see above link).

I use it at 100 A + 400 B + 1000 water with good results

Good luck!

Cor

Ps exchanging acetone for paraformaldehyde does not seem to work. And be very careful with the paraformaldehyde , it's toxic! (solute it at 50degC not much higher)

 

[dancqu]

I'm looking to start lith printing, and have a bunch of chems
and was wondering if anyone has some recipies that I can
follow to mix up my own two part lith developer. Thanks!

At Google search for, wall's normal hydroquinone. Lots
of formulas. I chanced upon a mix very similar to Wall's.
No more than hydroquinone, sodium sulfite, and sodium
carbonate. Ratios in that order 1:5:5. Multiply by 2,
make that in grams, and dissolve it all in 1 liter
of H2O. I've not tried that exact formula as
my by chance brew deviated some. Good
results in as few as 8 minutes. Dan

 

[Mike Wilde]

Yep, but with limited success

So far, apart from high contrast D19 I have had limited success with my mix own from formulas lith efforts. I was substituting eqi-molar formalin solution for dry weight paraformaldehyde and there is a chemical (can't recall what) along for the ride in the formalin that keeps it from sedimenting into paraformaldehyde that I think was the cause for the set backs.

My para order arrived in the mail last week, but I have not got back to the lith developer experiment yet. Silly things like making a living and being a good husband and parent have so far been the intrusions.

I do have about 150 sheets of 8x10 and 100 sheets of 11x14 lith film (ortho, about asa 3) in the freezer calling for my attention though. I have a mate in a camera club I frequent that I recently did some electrical work for. So now when I get over to his place there is a fully functional 17x 21" or so process camera in the basement adjacent to his darkroom to play with the lith on.

 

[Ian Grant]

Mike if you use Formalin/Formaldehyde instead of the paraformaldehyde and mix the D85 as a one part developer it works brilliantly as long as you use this as Part A and mix 1+1 for use with a Part B of 5% NaOH or KOH solution. I know this works because I used it for many years as a graphic arts dev commercially.

Ian

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

Any words on shelf life or tray life of home brews versus the proprietaries? Or do you mix this stuff only prior to use?

 

[Ian Grant]

Rich, all the Lith devs I've made up have had similar tray life to commercial lith devs.

Ian

 

[Mike Wilde]

good advise

Mike if you use Formalin/Formaldehyde instead of the paraformaldehyde and mix the D85 as a one part developer it works brilliantly as long as you use this as Part A and mix 1+1 for use with a Part B of 5% NaOH or KOH solution. I know this works because I used it for many years as a graphic arts dev commercially.

Ian

Thanks - no problem on your approach to the part B- I keep a good sized bottle of 40% W/V NaOH around for my soap making efforts, so it is just a careful dilution, rather than waiting for the dry pellets/flakes to water route stuff to cool off.

I was trying to do the A and B of high contrast D85's with the resulant sulfite formed by the formalin mixing not happening until A and B came together. The result was that there was no preservative in with the developer components. This relilzation came to me the day after I got zero results out of a day old from mixed develpoer I had compounded this way. That and the fact that A had turned green.

 

[nze]

Hi

I use Ansco 70 formula dilution from 1+1+6 to 1+1+20 with good result

 

[Ian Grant]

The Agfa/Ansco 70 formula is the same as Ilford ID-13, for graphics use it doesn't give the same edge effects as Agfa/Ansco 79/Kodak D85.

Ian

 

[dancqu]

Any words on shelf life or tray life of home brews
versus the proprietaries? Or do you mix this
stuff only prior to use?

Wall's is a snap to mix at time of use though it
can be made up as a concentrate. Longest shelf
life will result from mixing it A-B; A the hydroquinone
and sulfite and B the carbonate. For myself tray life is
not an issue as I use all chemistry very dilute one-shot.

I believe formalin etc compounds are present for the
purpose of increasing the developer's tray life. Those
compounds combine with the excess of sulfite present.
The complex formed twixt formalin etc and sulfite
maintains the low level of free sulfite needed for
infectious development. As it is depleted it
becomes again available. Sulfite acts as a
preservative and retards infectious
development.

Via the Google search for, Wall's Normal Hydroquinone
and material at unblinkingeye a few additional Wall's
type developers can be found.

That other formulations of the Wall's type or
formulations of more complex nature do vary
the results I've no doubt. Dan

 

[Fraxinus]

Home Brewed Lith

Hi

I use Ansco 70 formula dilution from 1+1+6 to 1+1+20 with good result

Just today I mixed some Ansco 70 for my first foray into lith printing in over fifteen years.
Initial tests look promising on Adox Nuance Grade 3 with a dilution of 1+1+19 at 22 deg C., development around 11 minutes.

Years ago I was using Kodak Transtar TP5 in Kodalith, it seemed so much easier then!

 

[Mike Wilde]

D-85 success

I finally found some time to play with lith again. This time I brewed up d-85 in one part, using paraformadehyde by mass, in lieu of earlier efforts of formalin by volume.

I was fiddling with calibrating some old lith film to do some half tone screen work.

By the end of the night I had two good 8x10's, and a whole ton of little test strips of step wedges that I used to figure out:
-the speed of the lith film,
-the gamma of the developer ( about 1.5 stops from clear to black at 2' 68F),
-and the calibration points that I needed to set up an old dial calculator, Q-15 that Kodak made to aid in doing half tone screens.

Since I was using negatives in an enlarger, rather than reflective copy in a process camera, I just set the calculator dials up to deal with dynamic range of 1.3. Base exposure was worked out to 50mm lens for 35mm, F4, projected image 8"x12", 60 seconds.

Now when I do lith film half tones, I measure no film light intensity with my analyser, then the highlight and shadow density. The calculator dial tells me how much flash, screen, and no screen exposure I need to get a good halftone. All of this mad work is leading to a future screen printing experiment.

The D-85 was getting a little sluggish in its action and dark in the tray by the end of the night, but all up it stayed acceptibly active for me for about 3 hours in the open tray. This is a lot longer than A+B lith mixes that I have used in the past.

 

[nze]

Roy

I keep on working with the ansco 70 , I use it at 1+1+19 as you. It also work at stronger dilution but need to be prepared 1 hours before and some fog paper in it. At 1+1+19 dilution I get good result promptly. I also work at an higher temperature 28°C to get a 4-5 min dev .

with the 1+1+9 dilution I already develop 30 print in a liter, I could do more but just need to stop. I think I could go to 40 easily/

Best

 

[anyhuus]

At Google search for, wall's normal hydroquinone. Lots
of formulas. I chanced upon a mix very similar to Wall's.
No more than hydroquinone, sodium sulfite, and sodium
carbonate. Ratios in that order 1:5:5. Multiply by 2,
make that in grams, and dissolve it all in 1 liter
of H2O. I've not tried that exact formula as
my by chance brew deviated some. Good
results in as few as 8 minutes. Dan

At what dilution do you use Wall's for lith printing?
I'm just beginning to experiment with lith print, and was searching for a lith developer that I could make from what I have on the shelf. Wall's seemed to be the one. I tried it yesterday on Ilford FB WT in dilutions 1+10, 1+20 and 1+40. I do not have any experience whatsoever with lith printing - this is my first shot at it - but I didn't get anything that even remotely looked like infectious development to me. What I did get was eventually very flat prints with what looked to me as high levels of fog. Dev time between 5-8 minutes.

What do I do wrong? Wrong dilution of dev? (I used 130 grams sodium carbonate rather that 100 grams potassium carbonate). Wrong paper? (exposure 2-4 stops more than a normal print)

 

[dancqu]

At what dilution do you use Wall's for lith printing?
What do I do wrong? Wrong dilution of dev? (I used
130 grams sodium carbonate rather that 100 grams
potassium carbonate). Wrong paper? (exposure
2-4 stops more than a normal print)

I'll have to check my records. BTW, you went the
wrong way with the carbonate; less of the sodium,
about 85 grams.

Why such a big batch for starters? One thing to
remember about published lith formulas, they are
designed for commercial FILM processing. Dan

 

[anyhuus]

I'll have to check my records. BTW, you went the
wrong way with the carbonate; less of the sodium,
about 85 grams.

Why such a big batch for starters? One thing to
remember about published lith formulas, they are
designed for commercial FILM processing. Dan

I wasn't thinking too much - just followed the recipy for 2x1L stock solution.
Shelf life should be good, and if I get it to work, then I have the lith dev. I need for a while.

Thanks for correction me on the carbonate concentration. Do you think the wrong concentration of Carbonate could be the reason that I don't get the expected results? Since carbonate is the only chemical in solution B, it should be easy to correct by simply use less B when making work solutions.

I consulted Tim Rudman's book regarding dilution, and he says 2-3 times the dilution recommended for film. Typically 1+1+18. Having no other guidance that this, that's what I started with when using Wall's. (Then again: I don't know the normal dilution for Wall's for film...).

Are you using normal dev. temperatures (e.g. 20 centigrades) or a "hot" developer 35-40 centigrdaes) when using Wall's?

 

[dancqu]

What I did get was eventually very flat prints with
what looked to me as high levels of fog. Dev time
between 5-8 minutes.

What do I do wrong? Wrong dilution of dev?
Wrong paper?

Very flat prints. So far so good. Lith development
is peculiar. Within the first few or several minutes
the print will take on a very flat look. That with all
going as it should. Slowly the print will continue to
darken. After some time, perhaps as little as five or
as much as twenty or more minutes, infectious
development will set in.

Development then proceeds rapidly; contrast builds.
A point is reached where the print must be 'snatched'
and development quickly halted. The snatch point is
most easily seen when working with Graded paper
as a much higher level of darkroom lighting
is permitted. Because Lith printing makes
possible considerable contrast control
a single Grade of paper will cover a
wide range of grades.

Now fog may be a matter of concern BUT be sure it
extends to the non-exposed portions of the print prior
to adding potassium bromide. Some papers need the
bromide and some do not.

So you compounded A and B. Let me know the exact
formula and volumes so that some dilution suggestions
can be made.

Try the following off the cuff suggestion. I test with 5x7.
If you have a 5x7 tray prepare 125ml at 1:40 dilution.
Allow about 16 minutes. If contrast has yet to build
and you wish quicker results try 1:30. Let us know
how it goes along with the formula info. Dan