Anybody still fooling around with X-ray film?

PHOTOTONE · Oct 11, 2007

I got all fired up about it, but have since lost a little big of interest, the X-ray film I got from CSX online is very prone to scratching, which can occur when one is cutting it down to size, or sliding it in and out of film holders. I process on hangars in deep tank, so no chance of scratching there. Just wondering if there were any of you still experimenting with X-ray for pictorial photography.

Schlapp · Oct 11, 2007

I was given some whole plate-ish and it awaits inspriation in the fridge!

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 12, 2007

Good point - double emulsion probably scratches on the back more easily than single emulsion.

Vaughn · Oct 12, 2007

It is on my list of things to do...and since I am running out of traditional film, I might be playing with it sooner than later.

But it is not like I don't have a backlog of negatives to print!

vaughn

JG Motamedi · Oct 12, 2007

I ordered some a few weeks ago but am moving so I have lost my darkroom for the next few months.

rrankin · Oct 12, 2007

Since it has to be tray processed to avoid lines on the rear of the film, I'm trying to organize a dark enough place to do that. My test shots looked fine, but had lines in the back from the ribs in the developing tubes, and I plan on using it seriously once I resolve my truly 'dark room' situation - hopefully in a few days.

htmlguru4242 · Oct 12, 2007

I occasionally pull a quarter-sheet or so out of the fridge and give it a try. I'm going to second what PHOTOTONE said, though; its incredibly prone to scratching.

It tends to acquire small scratches when dry; when wet, the light touch of a fingernail is almost enough to scratch the emulsion clear off the base.

DeBone 75 · Oct 12, 2007

I still use mine on a regular basis, when I can get out. As far as the ribbs showing up on the back side of the film when processing. I have discovered that if I rock the tray at all I get the ribbs, but if I just flopp the film like I normally do they don't show up. I think it must have to do with the little bit of friction/heat it must produce.

walter23 · Oct 12, 2007

Weird; I've never heard of this before. I take it X-ray film is sensitive to visible (or near-visible) light?

wclavey · Oct 12, 2007

I finished the sample pack of film I got from CSX and I am preparing to order a full box. I think I have gotten around the scratching problem I had by putting felt on the key places on my cutter that were affecting the film the most. I have not had any problems with scratching during processing in my Jobo tank. Unfortunately, I have spent my photography "allowance" this month already so I will probably not order any until next month. Besides, I am trying to finish up a project and I know if I get the x-ray film I will spend more time fooling with it and not working on my other project, which is time constrained.

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 13, 2007

walter23 -

xray films are sold as blue- or green- sensitive. For their intended purpose, they're placed in a purpose-made holder that has a phosphor coating. The specimen/body-density-modulated xray cone (analogous to one made with lightlight) hits the xray filmholder which emits the light to which the film is sensitive. I think there is some sensitivity to UV also. Not sensitive to dark red (typical xray lab safe light color).

The double emulsion and double phosphor panel is supposed to reduce the required dosage to which a person might be exposed.

I acquired a box of medical film repackaged for a circuit board inspection company. I'm hoping they selected one of the single emulsion films, which are hard for us inventive types to identify.

Agfa id'ed for me which of their xray films are single emulsion, but I'd have to look for it. I haven't seen those films sold at any of the discount xray-film-R-us kind of places I see on the web.

walter23 · Oct 13, 2007

Oh really? The film doesn't actually respond to X-ray radiation, just some kind of secondary visible or near-visible radiation caused by a substance in the film holder? Cool.

PHOTOTONE · Oct 13, 2007

walter23 said:
Weird; I've never heard of this before. I take it X-ray film is sensitive to visible (or near-visible) light?

Absolutely. X-ray film is sensitive to Blue visible light, just like the earliest photographic processes, such as daguerrotype and wet plate. It is not X-rays that directly expose X-ray film, but rather it is a flourescent screen that is in contact with the film. The X-rays cause the screen to glow in proportion to the X-ray strength, thus exposing film, which is processed just about like any b/w negative film. Much, if not most X-ray film is coated with a light-sensitive emulsion on both sides, to increase sensitivity, and is sandwiched between two flourescent screens.

The primary appeal of using X-ray film for pictorial use is the nostalgic tonal reproduction it gives, being only sensitive to the blue end of the spectrum, which causes the images to resemble early photography, and its cheapness. A 100 sheet box of 8x10 X-ray film can easily be purchased for less than $30.

Murray@uptowngallery · Oct 13, 2007

Also, look for Christian Nze here. He has some good anecdotal info on a couple types of film with respect ISO, processing and even which ones benefit from preflashing like paper negatives.

I'm sure he is not the only person successfully using it, but his is the finest work I've seen (granted, on the web) using xray film. You will probably need to have him identify which still lifes he shot with xray film vs regular, but he uses incandescent lighting & doesn't like the spectral response outdoors...depends what you're doing I guess.

Murray

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From email with Christian:

I develop Agfa in rodinal 1+50 @ 20°C for 4 minutes
but for Kodak I'll prefer PMK or abc pyro both 5minutes.

I use to put a glass plate in the bottom of my tray to avoid scratching the film surface. If I don't put the plate in face of the film is really scratched. I think the film is not hardened.
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Some of his xray film images: (he does shoot some 11x14 I think, but I don't know if it's these (how would he scan?))

Here is a list of Xray film photography made with kodak or Agfa Xray film coated on both face
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That last one almost makes me want to eat pears, & I don't like pears.

John Curran · Oct 13, 2007

walter23 said:
Weird; I've never heard of this before. I take it X-ray film is sensitive to visible (or near-visible) light?

Yes, IR film is too.

John

John Curran · Oct 13, 2007

Shot a couple of sheets. Still dialing in Film speed and processing times. The stuff I shot @ ISO 50 was over expo'd, 100 or 200 is probably better. Scratches if you look at it cross-eyed, and I've had some staining problems from photoflo, where I never do with other films.

John

PBrooks · Dec 16, 2007

Phototone, I've searched all through the posts, but are you guys that are shooting the blue sensitive xray film using coated or uncoated lenses. It seems as though this stuff will work as wetplate, so should a wetplate type lens be used.

Has anyone had experience with the Green/Blue sensitive with coated lenses and filters?

Going to order some in the morning as I shoot 14x17 and this is a huge cash of film(cheap), with potential.

PHOTOTONE · Dec 16, 2007

PBrooks said:
Phototone, I've searched all through the posts, but are you guys that are shooting the blue sensitive xray film using coated or uncoated lenses. It seems as though this stuff will work as wetplate, so should a wetplate type lens be used.

Has anyone had experience with the Green/Blue sensitive with coated lenses and filters?

Going to order some in the morning as I shoot 14x17 and this is a huge cash of film(cheap), with potential.

X-ray film should work with coated or uncoated lenses. I have not shot a sheet with an uncoated lens, but I will, as I have several 19th century lenses to try. I do know that modern coated lenses work just fine with Xray film.

Brian Bullen · Dec 16, 2007

PBrooks, here are two samples with an uncoated lens on green sensitive x-ray film. I use x-ray with caffenol so it has some odd effects on the emulsion.

DarkroomExperimente · Dec 16, 2007

When I get X-rays done by my dentist...they stick a piece of film in my mouth -- about the size of a 35mm slide....does that little filmholder also have some kind of phosphor in it...or is it directly sensitive to X-rays?

I just ordered my free sample of 14x17 "wide latitude" ortho X-ray film

are we going to get a million spam emails and marketing phone calls as a result of ordering free samples?

PHOTOTONE · Dec 16, 2007

DarkroomExperimente said:
When I get X-rays done by my dentist...they stick a piece of film in my mouth -- about the size of a 35mm slide....does that little filmholder also have some kind of phosphor in it...or is it directly sensitive to X-rays?

I just ordered my free sample of 14x17 "wide latitude" ortho X-ray film

are we going to get a million spam emails and marketing phone calls as a result of ordering free samples?

Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't take much X-ray dose to X-ray teeth..however the chest X-ray dose would be much higher without the glowing phospher film holders the film is loaded into for that use.

DarkroomExperimente · Dec 16, 2007

thanks

I also ordered some single-emulsion 8x10 film, although that particular site is aimed at Doctors...so they might ignore my request ( mad scientists don't count ).

nze · Dec 17, 2007

It work quite well , but different filmhave quite different sebsibility from 25 iso to 800 ISO . I only use them for still life with a 200Watt tungsten light with exposure range from 5 SEc to 5 min depening on the film.
I mostly develop in Rodinal or ABC pyro. I never forget to put a plate of glass in the bottom of my tray to avoid scratch and make all the step in the same tray( change the solution not the tray) . you mays also change of tray by taking te film with the glass plate. I often harden the film at the end of the process.

Best

htmlguru4242 · Dec 17, 2007

DarkroomExperimente said:
When I get X-rays done by my dentist...they stick a piece of film in my mouth -- about the size of a 35mm slide....does that little filmholder also have some kind of phosphor in it...or is it directly sensitive to X-rays?

I asked my dentist for a few of those dental X-Ray packets last year sometime, and I opened them up. It's a plastic case, with a piece of film and a [very] thin piece of metal foil on both sides of the film. There doesn't appear to be any type of a phosphor in there.

Now that I think of it, I'm going to see if I can find the remaining sheets and shoot them; they'd fit right in the film gate of a 35mm camera.

They've now switched to digital X-Ray capture :-( , so I've lost my source of those films.

nze, that's a fantastic idea with the glass plate; I never even considered doing something like that. Do you stick the film to the glass before processing, or just use it to protect the film from the base of the tray?

DarkroomExperimente · Dec 17, 2007

my Dentist is a photographer, so he still uses X-ray film...I keep meaning to ask him to X-ray something for me -- anything, just so I'll have used that part of the spectrum

Anybody still fooling around with X-ray film?

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