Any Rolleiflex to Shy away from ?

[absalom1951]

I am thinking of maybe picking up a Rolleiflex. I have had the urge for a long time of getting one, but never have. Figure if I am going to , I'd best be doing it before its to late. My question is this - Are there any models to shy away from ? There are so many different models . I am not looking at spending thousands of dollars but just a user camera that works.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Condition. That's the key. Best to buy from a reputable seller. Unless you know what you are doing and how to read between the lines and read the photos, Ebay will usually not work out well.

Biggest decision will be lens- Tessar/Xenar, or Planar/Xenotar? This sets the price range you will be looking at. Working Tessar/Xenar, $375- 600?(post-WWII models) Working Planar/Xenotar- $550(?)- 1200?

Pre-WWII models are usually riskier because of parts and such, but if in good mechanical condition and you want an uncoated lens, go for it. The pre-WWII Tessars are wonderful lenses.

Best value in my mind are unmetered E series. Others will disagree.

Oh, the T models are a different animal in many ways. Very different interior construction. Perfectly fine but condition becomes more important as they are not as well built.

And remember, condition is the main issue.

 

[absalom1951]

Sounds like the prewar Tessar might be the animal I look for. I agree about ebay. One must be very carefull when buying from ebay . I did look there at prices to get a rough idea. If something on ebay catches my eye I always ask a question- if they don't answer I quickly become uninterested.

I'll check out some reputable sellers web sites and see what they have.

Thanks for the info
Appreciate it - tom

 

[Arthurwg]

6008i. Very complex, hard on batteries, difficult to repair. Takes fabulous pictures, however.

 

[etn]

Condition. That's the key.

Best value in my mind are unmetered E series. Others will disagree.

And remember, condition is the main issue.

Fully agree on these 3 points!

 

[etn]

6008i. Very complex, hard on batteries, difficult to repair. Takes fabulous pictures, however.

Aren't the lenses of that system the same as Hasselblad's? (at least some of them)

 

[Ian Grant]

Like Dan says I'd avoid pre-WWII Rolleiflex acmeras more because the lenses aren't coated and have lower contrast, I'm using an early 1950's Automat MX with an Opton Tessar and it's a lovely camera very sharp lens. I also have an f3.5 E2 with a Xenotar while a better camera it's worth considerably more but is also near mint so the Automat is my main user TLR here in the UK..

As said condition, less the cosmetic, more the mechanical and particularly the optics and shutter, teh 1 second needs to sound silky and slick, any hesitation and you'll soon need a CLA. My E2 had a CLA about 12 years ago as teh lubricants had dried up due to lack of use by the first owner less than a dozen films from new, the Automat came back fro afull CLA last week, here in the UK that's £120 ($147) plus 20% VAT

Ultimately it comes down to price and luck, the T is the cheaper less desirable model, but at a good price OK. this has a Tessar when the better models had switched to the PLanar or Xenotar. You need to decide if you need the f2.8 version C onwards, I'm quite happy with my f.5 Xenotar, after all the viewing/focussing lenses are faster anyway.

Ian

 

[randyB]

Ditto to what others have already said. Condition is most critical. Of course, the more minty in condition the more pricey they are. If I were in the look for a Rolleiflex today I would look for a model made from the mid 60's to 80's, that would be the time period that Rolleiflexes were most popular and would have the best coatings on the taking lenses. A late 60's Model T with either the Tessar or Xenar would be an excellent choice. If you had more $ to spend then look at a 70's E2-3 or F model with removeable view hood either the Planar or Xenotar lens will give stellar images. If money is no object then by all means go for the newest most current model. You won't be disappointed with any good condition model.

 

[craigclu]

I had all manner of these way back and decided that I liked the MX shutter series as I used a meter that was easy to use the EV system with. From ƒ5.6 and on, I found it difficult to tell differences from my Planars and Tessars. I liked the low taking angles for small children and pet shots and regret getting talked out of my last one some years back. Like others have said, any fresh example with pristine optics should not disappoint you.

 

[absalom1951]

Thanks for all the great information . I found some Rolleiflex automats at KOLS camera that have been cla.Any opinions or experiences with them ?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

According to their website, Jimmy Koh retired from repairing cameras. I don't know who does their repairs now, but it doesn't quite carry the same weight having it done by someone with the good reputation of Jimmy. Personally, I would agree with what others have said about the 3.5e series. They are in a sweet spot of price and quality: you can pay $400 to get an automat with a tessar, which will be just as good as a rolleicord, autocord or yashica that you can pick up for $200. Or you can pay $500 for a 3.5e, which handily beats all the others. Only the 2.8 models of rolleiflex compete with it in lens quality, and even then, that's up for debate. There is both a 2.8C Xenotar and a 3.5E Planar on KEH right now in ugly condition (i.e. minor lens flaws) for under $500. Both of those would be excellent deals in my opinion. The best standard lens I've ever owned was on a 5 element rolleiflex 3.5e planar with a scratched up front element. It is a pity that camera's shutter cocking lever broke beyond fixing and my repair person couldn't fix it.

 

[absalom1951]

I will check out keh. Thanks

 

[Down Under]

Agree entirely with the 3.5E2 assessment - I've owned one (a Planar model bought new) since 1966. I had it CLA'd-serviced two times and it has always served me well throughout its 54-year life. E-E2s-E3s were an F prototype series with a slightly different front face layout and from the E2 on with the removable WLF, I now use it with a Rollei prism, a great help to my less than perfect 72-year old eyes.

Its only flaw is the taking lens now has a small egg-shaped area of separation which doesn't affect images but makes my E2 almost worthless for resale - not that I plan to pass it on to anyone soon, eventually to a friend as an inheritance. The separation was first noticed in 2002 when I last had the camera serviced by a reputable Rollei-trained Melbourne techo (sadly now retired), who told me that I should just go on using it and not be worried about what he called "a minor blip".

The Rolleiflex Ts are good value and fine shooters. They (like the Rolleicord Vb) were amateur models with Zeiss Tessars and Schneider Xenars and are often far better kept and less used than the bigger Ds, Es and Fs which were pro models. The T accessories are cheaper and repairs often cost less (if you buy a Rollei bear in mind that any '50s or '60s top model camera will eventually need a CLA, so budget for this.). An urban myth about the T is that its shutter speed-f/stop lever system is flawed and unrepairable - this is wrong and seemingly based on a comment by one repairman. I've had CLAs and other (fortunately minor) repairs made as late as 2016 and my two Ts from circa 1970 just go on shooting without fail. Ditto my Rolleicord Vb which I picked up dirt-cheaply as a grubby but mechanically sound work-horse. The Ts can also be adapted to shoot 16 shots on 120 and the 'cord to 16 and 24 shots on 120 as well as 35mm.

Buying one in good condition can be a challenge. I've stated my low opinion of Ebay in other posts - you pay too much for gear best described as "pigs in pokes" with a high risk factor, if someone has home-tinkered with the camera and damaged it you are up for often expensive repairs or even a complete overhaul, Paypal has a sort of protection plan by which you can claim (but not always get) a refund from the seller if the item is not as described - here again, think of all those sales listings with "I don't know anything about this camera". I now buy directly from sellers and not online, so I can examine and handle the camera before handing over any cash. With a reputable dealer your purchase will come with a warranty. In this day and age of online snake oil scams, caution is best.

 

[absalom1951]

Being in central Iowa there's not to many camera shops. What few are, they are mostly all digital. A couple in Des Moines, over a hour away and a few in the eastern part of the state. I'll have to do some checking . I'm fairly close to Minneapolis up north and closer to Omaha. Heck, KC is only 3 hours away.

I agree, best to check a camera out hands on if possible.

Might get that $10 guide. Seems kinda pricey for 8 pages , but if it could save me money would be well worth it.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Yet another vote for an E model. The odds are that if it has a meter in it, the meter is toast, but that's ok- you were going to use a handheld meter anyway The E models are still widely serviceable, and also still reasonably affordable.

 

[GG12]

Aren't the lenses of that system the same as Hasselblad's? (at least some of them)

The 6008 cameras (which includes the 6003) use the PQ/PQS series of lenses. These were made for Rollei by Schneider and Zeiss, and some of the Zeiss ones had the same design as the Hassy lenses, although the integral shutter, lens mount and electronics are totally different. The Schneider lenses are typically a step better, being a more modern design. It was a wonderful period in the 1990s when Mandelmann owned both Rollei and Schneider and had a lineup of lenses designed by Schneider over about 5-7 years that were just the best in medium format. They hold up quite well, still they are wonderful lenses - use them still today with digital back with great success - the only one I ever questioned was the slight degradation on the far sides of the 40mm - the rest are tack sharp, corner to corner. For example, a look at the MTF for the 150 f4.6 shows a distortion curve that is just flat zero. Some have mild CA and a gentle bit of distortion, easily taken out in post.

The Zeiss lenses are nice, have a different look. They are typically less sharp wide open, but snap into sharpness around f8. Their distortion curve is more complex. Recently using the Zeiss 250, quite a bit smaller and lighter than the Schneider 300 Apo. At f11, there isn't much between them.

As to complex cameras? The 6008 is not all that complicated. Had a couple, they were fine - but with digital backs, prefer the Hy6, and have been using one for the past 10 years. It uses the same PQ lenses - so those I bought in the 1990s (now 25+ years ago!) are still used. The Hy6 has great focus confirmation, so it handles focusing manual lenses quite nicely. The only issue is the camera's knobbies get a bit funky with lack of use, but the rest is just fine. IMHO, its what the Hassy should/could have become - good features, ease of use, simple interfaces, built in a modular platform. Too bad more people don't know.

 

[NB23]

A 3.5F is, to me, the best package. Small enough, addicting, and gives amazing results. The 3.5E is the same except the F has an easily removable viewing hood.

or a rolleicord. Those rolleicords are so small and easy to use, they burn through film so quickly!

 

[macfred]

The Wonderful World of Rolleiflex TLR Photography: Buying a Used Rolleiflex TLR https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/the-wonderful-world-of-rolleiflex-tlr-photography-buying-a-used-rolleiflex-tlr by our member Dan Wagner is a good read.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I think the 2.8E Type 2 and 3.5E Type 3 introduced the removable viewfinder. I got a 2.8E2 because it’s what the Rolleiwide is based on.

I think the removable finder was only on the 2.8E type 3, but I could be wrong. I have a pair of Type 1s, so of course neither has a removable hood. The hood on my Tele is removable.

 

[macfred]

I think the removable finder was only on the 2.8E type 3, ....

Rolleiflex 3.5 E2 Model 1 (type K4C2) has the removeable finder hood too.

 

[NB23]

Good to know

 

[campy51]

Being in central Iowa there's not to many camera shops. What few are, they are mostly all digital. A couple in Des Moines, over a hour away and a few in the eastern part of the state. I'll have to do some checking . I'm fairly close to Minneapolis up north and closer to Omaha. Heck, KC is only 3 hours away.

I agree, best to check a camera out hands on if possible.

Might get that $10 guide. Seems kinda pricey for 8 pages , but if it could save me money would be well worth it.

Here's one from a reputable dealer in Minneapolis. They can't ship until the closures end but if you talk to them you can usually get 10 % off the listed price and there's free shipping and a 30 day warranty but you pay shipping back.
https://www.natcam.com/products/rolleiflex-automat/

 

[Dan Daniel]

Here's one from a reputable dealer in Minneapolis. They can't ship until the closures end but if you talk to them you can usually get 10 % off the listed price and there's free shipping and a 30 day warranty but you pay shipping back.
https://www.natcam.com/products/rolleiflex-automat/

Oh heck, I have an MX-EVS with Tessar, 10-bladed aperture, and Mamiya RZ67 matte screen, fully overhauled, for $425 if anyone is looking....

 

[absalom1951]

The Wonderful World of Rolleiflex TLR Photography: Buying a Used Rolleiflex TLR https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/the-wonderful-world-of-rolleiflex-tlr-photography-buying-a-used-rolleiflex-tlr by our member Dan Wagner is a good read.

This is a good read - thanks

 

[absalom1951]

Here's one from a reputable dealer in Minneapolis. They can't ship until the closures end but if you talk to them you can usually get 10 % off the listed price and there's free shipping and a 30 day warranty but you pay shipping back.
https://www.natcam.com/products/rolleiflex-automat/

I checked it out , When the closures do end, I might just buzz up there. Will be a nice little drive .