Any Love for the Voightlander Bessa?

ColColt · Jul 27, 2015

I've been looking at the R2M/R3M and must admit they look like possible good alternatives to the more expensive by far Leica M series. I know zilch about them but do like the looks and the fact the back swings open like an SLR as opposed to the bottom being removed to load film in the Leica.

Anyone own one of these and if so, what would your review be? I understand they can use either the Voightlander, Leica or Zeiss lens.

ColdEye · Jul 27, 2015

I had the R, it was pretty good. I preferred the vf/RF of the Canon P and m4. The meter on mine at least was pretty accurate. VF was large. I have seen complaints of a plasticky feel, but I never felt that. Sure it felt different than a nikkormat but it was not a deal breaker for me.

ColColt · Jul 27, 2015

There were several points about the Voightlander I liked over the M2, M4 Leicas with one being the swing open back and the other being the viewfinder diopter being able to take the Nikon FM2A diopters...larger and less expensive than if you needed one for the M2-M4 Leica.

Gerald C Koch · Jul 27, 2015

I have an R and two L's. Have never had any problems with any of them.

ColColt · Jul 27, 2015

Any problems with focus calibration of the rangefinder? Reason for asking I read somewhere that was mentioned as needed at least by one fellow. I think it was an R2M but can't recall for sure.

Ko.Fe. · Jul 27, 2015

I had R and L. Sold. Had money to buy newer "metal" model, but zero local service and spare parts.
Went with M4-2 and local service. I'm not "I never have problems" kind of user. Cameras get abused by me sometimes and needs service.
if you are in USA get Bessa from Cameraquest. They have service for these RFs.

Pioneer · Jul 28, 2015

I live in the US and have purchased two Voigtlander Bessa cameras from Stephen Gandy at Cameraquest. One is the earlier R model which accepts the Leica Thread Mount (LTM) lenses. This model is often described as being more plasticky and less reliable than the cameras that followed. I have used this one quite a bit and though it has received the normal abuse expected from normal use, I have had no problems with mine to this point. However, if it does, I have quick access to service through Cameraquest.

My 2nd one is the R2C, which uses the early Contax Mount common to the Contax II, III, IIa and IIIa cameras. I love this camera because I can use all my Contax lenses in their native mounts. This one does feel a bit sturdier than the R model and, again, I have not had problems with this one either.

There are good things and bad things about these cameras. On the plus side, they are much less expensive than a Leica, they have very nice viewfinders which make them easy to use and they come with in-camera metering. On the minus side, the rangefinder does not have as wide of a baselength as the Leica cameras. This means that they are best used with shorter lenses. In fact, they come with built-in brightline masks that only go to 85mm. Another minus will be their build quality. While they are certainly good cameras and fairly robust, they will not equal the build quality you receive from a Leica.

Overall I think that they are an excellent value. For the price you will get a very, very nice rangefinder camera that is capable of using all the lenses you can use with a Leica, though you may want to avoid the longer focal lengths.

There is tons of information available at www.cameraquest.com.

Terry Christian · Jul 28, 2015

I've been using the R2 for a few years and love it. All models R2 and better are made of magnesium alloy metal, same as most professional cameras. True, they may not be Leica build quality, but they're just as good as any Nikon or other other makes out there. Depending on the exact model of Leica, they often offer convenient features that Leica doesn't. I call my Bessa R2 a poor man's M6.
I've used it with Leica, Canon, Nikon, Voigtlander, and various Soviet lenses in both M and LTM, and haven't had a single issue with rangefinder calibration or focus.

ColColt · Jul 28, 2015

Looking over cameraquest's website they indicate both the R2M/R3M will accept up to a 90mm lens. That's about as far as I'd need to go with it anyway. When I had the Leica M2 I did 90% of my shooting with the 35 and 50 f/2 Summicron lenses.

Realizing these are what I'd call a "poor man's Leica" I think they have much to offer. They may not survive wartime photojournalism but then again, I'm no Robert Capa or Eugene Smith. It's good to know you can opt for the more expensive Leica lens that will mount on them in the event you want to spend that sort of money. I assume the Zeiss lens will fit properly also but haven't read enough about lens interchangeability to confirm that. One thing I did find puzzling was the clear window on the back at the far left. Looks like that would fog the film.

I found out early on when I had the M2 it wasn't the body was so expensive, it was the cost of the lenses.

BTW-I noticed B&H Photo also sells the Voightlander.

Terry Christian · Jul 28, 2015

No, the clear window won't fog the film. It's a reminder window, and many modern (mid-1980s and later) cameras have them. I know several Nikon SLR bodies do.
I haven't used Zeiss lenses specifically, but they should work as long as they are M or LTM (with adapter) mount.

ColColt · Jul 28, 2015

I know the R-series Leicas have a greenish window in the same place with a seal on the inside. That was the first time I ever saw a window on a camera back.

ColColt · Jul 28, 2015

Being a bit nearsighted, I found with my Nikon F2A I needed a +0.5 diopter to be able to focus well. Nikon's viewfinder system is a -1. How is the Bessa set up? I'd need a diopter, no doubt, like in the case of the F2A but wouldn't want to order half a dozen to see which one would work.

Ko.Fe. · Jul 28, 2015

Check Cameraquest site, they have info for "diopters". If I'm not mistaken it is Nikon's ones.

Leica Ms will take old Leitz lenses including collapsible ones, which are not collapsible into Bessas. Ms also taking goggled Leitz glass. Like Summaron 35 which aren't expensive in 3.5 versions, but true Leitz in the rendering.
You could even toss cheap collapsible FSU I-22, 50 with cheap LTM-M adapter on M and it will be fully collapsible. And fat-butt J-12 will have no problems on Ms. But no metering on Bessas.
You don't have to buy latest coded for digital Leica glass for film M. Those are priced for digital M users and calculated for digital cameras.
I'm happy with old, but clean Summarit 50 1.5. It is amazing on BW and color as well. And they aren't expensive.
You could get in LTM mount with 35 3.5 Summaron and with Bessa R it will gives you exactly same Leica photos under very good price

RobC · Jul 28, 2015

diopter is supposed to be standardised. If you have an eye test it should tell you which is the right one for your eyes.

suggest you also consider a used ZEISS IKON ZM / ZI which has a wider ranger finder and is reputed by all to have a brighter and better viewfinder by most including a lot of Leica die hards.

Also consider frame lines, obviously voigtlander cameras have frame lines for their lenses. Zeiss have them for their lenses and Leica have them for their lenses. Depends which focal lengths you are thinking of buying...

ColColt · Jul 28, 2015

The Nikon FM3A diopters will fit but what I had in reference to was how the Bessa viewfinder was set up. This info from Sover Wong about Nikons...

"Nikon finders are all set at -1, without any correction lens. Nikon correction lenses are not marked for their actual values, but actual values minus one, ie :

+1 is marked as 0
+1.5 is marked as 0.5
+2 is marked as +1
etc

There is no -1."

That's why I was curious if the Voightlander may be a -1 as well. Then, I'd know which Nikon diopter to get.

I like the frame lines on the R2M as it includes the 35 lens but the R3M is 1:1 which is better to me but no 35 frame line so, it's a tradeoff

Xmas · Jul 28, 2015

ColColt said:
The Nikon FM3A diopters will fit but what I had in reference to was how the Bessa viewfinder was set up. This info from Sover Wong about Nikons...

"Nikon finders are all set at -1, without any correction lens. Nikon correction lenses are not marked for their actual values, but actual values minus one, ie :

+1 is marked as 0
+1.5 is marked as 0.5
+2 is marked as +1
etc

There is no -1."

That's why I was curious if the Voightlander may be a -1 as well. Then, I'd know which Nikon diopter to get.

I like the frame lines on the R2M as it includes the 35 lens but the R3M is 1:1 which is better to me but no 35 frame line so, it's a tradeoff

You are unlikely to need a diopter with a rangefinder even if you need reading glasses.
The bessas are reliable but you might have difficulty with repair.
A j12 or Russar might be a problem any other lenses should be ok.
You need to try one before mail order rangefinders are easier to focus but may be more difficult for other reasons.
The later LTM Canons VI, P and 7 series are comparable, built like a Nikon F2 swing back door metal shutter, etc.

ColColt · Jul 28, 2015

It's been a long time since I had and used a rangefinder(Leica M2) but had no problems focusing. However, my eyes were better in the 80's than now. I didn't have tri-focals then.

RobC · Jul 28, 2015

I guess that as usual it all comes down to price and whether you want new or used.

this was the best review of a Zeiss Ikon ZI that I saw and note it was from a Leica user of 40 years. Your Bessa gets a look in too.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

cuthbert · Jul 28, 2015

I heard good things about the Bessas but the only thing that prevents me to get one is that IMO they are...ehm...ugly.

ColColt · Jul 28, 2015

Some of the best loving I ever had was from an ugly gal. Just close your eyes and pretend it's a Leica.

cuthbert · Jul 28, 2015

ColColt said:
Some of the best loving I ever had was from an ugly gal. Just close your eyes and pretend it's a Leica.

Then I'll go with the eldest sister, the Zeiss Ikon ZM.

More seriously, why does Cosina insist in making cameras that are short and narrow? The Bessa looks a little like the deformed sister of the Zorki 3, one of the least appealing Soviet rangefinders ever.

ColColt · Jul 28, 2015

Looks wise I like the Voightlander over the Zeiss Ikon. Actually, I like them both but Zeiss lens are about as expensive as Leitz.

RobC · Jul 28, 2015

A camera is just a light tight box, a tool. It really doesn't matter what it looks like, it's how it performs which is importatnt.

Xmas · Jul 28, 2015

ColColt said:
Looks wise I like the Voightlander over the Zeiss Ikon. Actually, I like them both but Zeiss lens are about as expensive as Leitz.

If you buy an M body like the ZM you can use any M or LTM lens except possible outliers like the J12...
If you buy an LTM body it only excluses M lenses.
I use M2 bodies but I only have one M lens...
The digital Ms like the RD1 similar but I don't do that.

ColColt · Jul 28, 2015

Speaking of the M2, I once had a super nice one with the 35 and 50 f2 Summicron lenses. I recently scanned a pic of me with it back in 1982 when I had more hair.

Me023 by David Fincher, on Flickr

Any Love for the Voightlander Bessa?

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