Any ideas what happened to these exposures?

horacekenneth · Aug 10, 2014

These came out of a Nikon F2 I recently had CLA'd. The film is tmax 3200 (expired about 10 years, kept on and off in a freezer, not great quality stuff). The last three exposures on the roll look like they received no exposure on one side (right side of the camera). My hunch is some kind of mechanical failure but what is killing me is that the fourth picture down was taken 60 seconds before these three and looks fine.

Sorry about the terrible inversions but I think you get the idea:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/horacekenneth/14850110206/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/horacekenneth/14873090245/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/horacekenneth/14850110516/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/horacekenneth/14870633544/

also the straight negatives:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/horacekenneth/14686455009/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/horacekenneth/14686481088/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/horacekenneth/14850111506/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/horacekenneth/14873091395/

What are your thoughts?

P.S. I don't think it is a problem with the negative, but just so you know how bad this negative is I thawed it out, shot half the roll, rewound it, refroze it, thawed it again and shot the last half in my F2, these are from that second shooting.

snapguy · Aug 10, 2014

Puzzle

This is a puzzle. It seems that you whipped and flogged this poor beast which was an ancient roll of very fast film and froze, thawed and refroze it and now you're unhappy because the creature doesn't wag its tail for you. And you are not sure if the camera works correctly. I think you need to find a fully functional camera, purchase brand new film that has not been abused and don't freeze and thaw it out in between shots.

summicron1 · Aug 10, 2014

what snapguy is trying to say is that, despite what you said about not thinking the problem is your negatives, you shot crap film.

Ten years old, thawed, frozen, thawed and shot again??? Huh???

If you are concerned about even exposure, hold the film up to a light with no lens and the back open. Shoot at all shutter speeds above 1/30th. The film opening should be even brightness at all speeds, especially the top. If there is unevenness, you will se it there.

But, for any serious test, do yourself a favor. Buy fresh film, shoot it, develop it, let us know how THAT comes out.

I suspect "Just fine" will be the answer.

Kawaiithulhu · Aug 10, 2014

Only two things I can add is that high ISO film is particularly susceptible to a decade of torture.

And that if you do try the light test with the open camera use continuous lighting that doesn't flicker, like the sun on a wall.

Jerevan · Aug 10, 2014

Shutter bouncing from being a bit overtightened? I have no idea if this actually can happen on an F2, I've only experienced it on a Leica M. Let the camera repairman have a look again at it - it does not seem right.

Otherwise try it with some new film, a test roll and try all the speeds, especially the faster ones, such as 1/1000 and 1/2000th.

ciniframe · Aug 10, 2014

Looks like the second curtain is catching up with the first curtain. Probably the first curtain is dragging. To check cut a slit, about 5~6 mm wide and 35mm high in a piece of card stock (cereal box type stuff) and hold the slit up to the film gate, first on the right, then middle, then left. If, at the same shutter speed, if the flash of light is not even for all three positions, then the slit is not even across the entire frame. Take off the lens to test. Test at several speeds, say from 1/60 to 1/2000.

If the camera just came back from a CLA (a broad and squishy term) that you paid money for then this problem should be addressed by the repair person at no extra charge.

railwayman3 · Aug 10, 2014

You're trying to test two variables at once.....a camera and lens which might have a fault and a film which might (very probably?) be affected by age and poor storage.

Check the camera thoroughly with known fresh film, processed by your usual familiar and trusted method. If there's then a problem, you can go back to the repair person with a clear and justified complaint.

(Then, if you need to check the film, use a camera which you know is in good working order.)

horacekenneth · Aug 10, 2014

Thank you, I did the slit test. Here are my results:

[TABLE="width: 500"]

1/2000
1/1000
1/500
1/125
1/30

right side

I see light
I see light
I see light
I see light
I see light

right middle
no noticeable difference
looks slightly dimmer
no noticeable difference
no noticeable difference
no noticeable difference

left middle
I don't see any light
looks slightly dimmer
no noticeable difference
no noticeable difference
no noticeable difference

left side
no light
noticeably dimmer
no noticeable difference
no noticeable difference
no noticeable difference

[/TABLE]

I guess that supports the dragging curtain theory?

I appreciate that I need to limit my variables, that said, I don't see how it could be anything other than a mechanical failure when it occurs three frames in a row along the same spot in each frame.

Xmas · Aug 10, 2014

return to repaired with film sample...

shutterfinger · Aug 10, 2014

The camera has a horizontal travel focal plane shutter. The shutter consist of two curtains that wind/take up on single spools but operate independently of each other.
Cocking the shutter winds both curtains on the right side of the film plane spool while increasing the return tension on the spool on the left side of the film plane.
Tripping the shutter on any speed the first curtain, the one you see if the back is open and the shutter cocked, releases and opens the film plane to light from the lens. Depending on shutter speed selected the second curtain is released at a time delay from the first creating a slit that is swept across the film plane. The faster the speed the narrower the slit, the slower the speed the wider the slit up to one second where the first curtain uncovers the film plane and the second curtain covers it a second later.

According to your table the first curtain shows drag starting at 1/1000 and the second curtain fully catches up with it at 1/2000. Return the camera to the service place with fresh sample film and the description table above.

Standard camera terminology is with the camera in picture taking position with regard to left and right sides.

ciniframe · Aug 10, 2014

Now this may be a long shot but you need at this time to look for debris/film chips in the channel that the first curtain runs in. Lower channel probably as gravity would tend to cause any stuff in the upper channel to fall out. On more than one camera with roller blind shutters I have found film chips in the channels that the shutter curtains run in, sometimes very small chips. With the shutter on "B" and locked open with a locking cable release carefully examine each channel. If you see any loose debris see if you can blow it out with a air bulb, or just turn the camera upside down and shake it a bit. You may find nothing and the first curtain dragging could be caused by other things but it is worth a look before you send it back to the repairer. I personally would not poke around in the channel with any sharp metal object trying to remove stuff an air blower or gravity should work.

camtec · Aug 11, 2014

Shutterfinger is correct. It is called curtain travel time. The second curtain is catching the first curtain before the first one reaches the end of the opening.

darkosaric · Aug 11, 2014

I avoid using shutter speed faster than 1/250s on old mechanical cameras when possible. This is not the first time I see this problems.
And when I have old film, specially with high iso, what I do is overexpose and overdevelop. Nothing is more irritating to print in darkroom than thin negative.

Any ideas what happened to these exposures?

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