Any first-time advice on using Rodinal?

Ken Bingham · Jul 24, 2019

So I've tried developing my negatives in ID-11 and D-76, and now I want to make the jump to Rodinal. At least, it feels like a jump, the way people talk and write about it. I detect a reverent hush behind every word I read, so it seems reasonable to ask about first-time gotchas. As for particulars, I'll be developing Ilford 120 Pan F Plus 50. I'm thinking I'll dilute either 1:25 or 1:50. Agitate the first full minute, then four every succeeding minute. I don't plan on adjusting for temperature. How snappy do I have to be at pouring it out at the end of the development time?

Other thoughts? Thanks in advance.

koraks · Jul 24, 2019

Ken Bingham said:
I don't plan on adjusting for temperature.

As long as you're within about one centigrade from the defined temperature for your development time, that's fine. Otherwise it's just inviting an unnecessary element of uncertainty.
Rodinal is just another developer. An old concept, and as a result, many alternatives are available that are often better in one way or another - and sometimes in several ways. But to each their own. There are no particular things to look out for; it's a pretty straightforward process. Just make sure you mix the solution fresh before use and don't use it if it's older than a few hours.

Ken Bingham · Jul 24, 2019

koraks said:
As long as you're within about one centigrade from the defined temperature for your development time, that's fine. Otherwise it's just inviting an unnecessary element of uncertainty.
Rodinal is just another developer. An old concept, and as a result, many alternatives are available that are often better in one way or another - and sometimes in several ways. But to each their own. There are no particular things to look out for; it's a pretty straightforward process. Just make sure you mix the solution fresh before use and don't use it if it's older than a few hours.

Thank you, sir.

jimjm · Jul 24, 2019

Rodinal won't impart any magical look to your negatives, but it may affect acutance, or the perception of edge sharpness. You may or may not like the results you get with certain films, but use of Rodinal for most folks over other developers is just a matter of personal preference.
I have used it at 1:50 with 120 Fuji Acros and TMax100, and been happy with the results. The biggest plus is the really long shelf life of the concentrate.
As long as your development time is reasonably long enough, 5 mins or more, you don't need to be super-critical when pouring out the developer. A delay of 5 or 10 secs before the stop is introduced will not have any affect on your film.

Bronica SQ-A, Acros 100, Rodinal 1:50

bluechromis · Jul 24, 2019

People often recommend when using Rodinal to increase the exposure of the film, i.e. shoot it at less than box speed and reduce development time. This is to reduce contrast. Is this rule set in stone? No. Some people report success with push development and Rodinal though this is less common How contrasty is your subject matter may play a part. You could start with exposing film at box speed but if you find high or low values getting blocked up you could try pulling the film, i.e. increase exposure & reduce development. The ;massive dev chart will give times to do this with many emulsions.

koraks · Jul 24, 2019

bluechromis said:
This is to reduce contrast.

It's more to compensate for the issue of rodinal not reaching full speed with most emulsions. Generally you get 2/3 - 1 stop less speed, and hence lack of shadow detail with most films shot at box speed.
Rodinal is a compensating developer as far as I'm aware and that means excessive contrast is less of an issue than with, say, D76.

KN4SMF · Jul 24, 2019

Just be aware that if you're switching to it from D-76 that you are going to be greeted (perhaps unhappily) with a marked, if not dramatic increase in graininess.

bluechromis · Jul 24, 2019

Ken I am not sure what you mean when you say you will be not adjusting for temperature in developing. If you meant by that something like, "in the winter when the ambient temperature of the house is 68 F I will develop at 68 F and when in summer and hot I will develop at 76 F, if you don't adjust duration accordingly that could be problematic. With two bath developers it might be ok. When I first started developing black and white I thought the rules about how long to develop, temperature & agitation had to be precisely followed or your film would be utterly ruined. But since then I have learned people people successfully at many different temperatures, agitation schemes, durations. I am not recommending this, but even if you are off your target temperature several degrees or off the duration by minute it will not make as big a difference as you might think. It is an experiment you can try. In my opinion the real reason to be precise about developing parameters is about consistency. If you are not consistent with whatever parameters you choose, if there is problem it will be difficult isolating it and correcting it because there will many potential variables in play.

Paul Howell · Jul 24, 2019

Some like fast films in Rodinal for the grain effect. Many years ago I did a series of nudes, TriX 35mm pushed to 3200 using single light source, no shadow detail, grain you can chew, but has a look that hard to replicate. I still use Rodinal with slower films, Ultrafine 100, Tmax 100, ILford Pan F, can be quite nice. I recommend first roll to be Delta or Tmax 100, use 1:25 with distilled water. It may take a few rolls to nail your personal ISO. Other experiment is using Rodinal for stand development 1:100 for a hour, only one two agitations.

David Lyga · Jul 24, 2019

With Pan F+ you can easily dilute twice as much (1 + 99, not 1 + 49) and develop for a longer time. The effect will be the same and you have used only half as much. - David Lyga

RalphLambrecht · Jul 24, 2019

Ken Bingham said:
So I've tried developing my negatives in ID-11 and D-76, and now I want to make the jump to Rodinal. At least, it feels like a jump, the way people talk and write about it. I detect a reverent hush behind every word I read, so it seems reasonable to ask about first-time gotchas. As for particulars, I'll be developing Ilford 120 Pan F Plus 50. I'm thinking I'll dilute either 1:25 or 1:50. Agitate the first full minute, then four every succeeding minute. I don't plan on adjusting for temperature. How snappy do I have to be at pouring it out at the end of the development time?

Other thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Ken fill, tap ,agitate and pour hust as you do with the other developers and you'll be fine; no gotchas.

Colin Corneau · Jul 24, 2019

You choose a developer based on many elements...for me I like that it basically keeps forever after opening, so it's very economical

Mainly I like the edge sharpness/acutance and the grain is just fine by me...honestly, I don't think it's as pronounced as it's often made out to be but it is noticeable. I happen to like grain and on slower films it's not a big deal anyway.

Find your preference. For me, it's what I use for slower or fine grained film...TMY2 is the fastest film I use it on and on films like TMX, FP4 or PanF it's a great choice.

JensH · Jul 24, 2019

Ken Bingham said:
So I've tried developing my negatives in ID-11 and D-76, and now I want to make the jump to Rodinal. At least, it feels like a jump, the way people talk and write about it. I detect a reverent hush behind every word I read, so it seems reasonable to ask about first-time gotchas. As for particulars, I'll be developing Ilford 120 Pan F Plus 50. I'm thinking I'll dilute either 1:25 or 1:50. Agitate the first full minute, then four every succeeding minute. I don't plan on adjusting for temperature. How snappy do I have to be at pouring it out at the end of the development time?

Other thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Hi Ken,

some very good answers so far, just some more words...:

Ilford Pan F Plus in 120 works great with Rodinal 1:25 or 1:50.

I expose it @ 25ASA for normal contrast situations. Nice tonality in 120 (and even 135), still fine and nice grain.
If the subject has a high contrast, give it more light (16ASA) and reduce dev time.
Anyway other developers work better (PMK or two bath devs) here.

Ilford Pan F Plus likes to be developed soon after exposure, best within a week.

Rodinal works very good at 20°C or colder, I used it even @16°C with success. You agitation is fine.

Use destilled water to make the working solution and do this just before developement (as said before).
I do so for all solutions except the final washing.

Finally my dev times:

Agitation 30sec, then once a minute, small tank, PanF plus 120, prewash 2 minutes in dest. water

1:25; 20°C
normal contrast subjects (N dev), 25ASA, 6 minutes
high contrast subjects (N- dev), 16ASA, 4 minutes

1:25; 18°C
normal contrast subjects (N dev), 25ASA, 7.5 minutes
high contrast subjects (N- dev), 16ASA, 5 minutes

1:50; 20°C
normal contrast subjects (N dev), 25ASA, 11 minutes
high contrast subjects (N- dev), 16ASA, 7.5 minutes

1:50; 18°C
normal contrast subjects (N dev), 25ASA, 13 minutes
high contrast subjects (N- dev), 16ASA, 9 minutes

Best
Jens

destroya · Jul 24, 2019

Dont be tempted, no matter what you read, to think stand development will solve all your problems. I have had more developer disasters doing stand development than all other developer disasters combined. try if you must, but dont expect magic. stick to 1+50 and be happy. keep it simple!

Ken Bingham · Jul 24, 2019

bluechromis said:
Ken I am not sure what you mean when you say you will be not adjusting for temperature in developing. If you meant by that something like, "in the winter when the ambient temperature of the house is 68 F I will develop at 68 F and when in summer and hot I will develop at 76 F, if you don't adjust duration accordingly that could be problematic. With two bath developers it might be ok. When I first started developing black and white I thought the rules about how long to develop, temperature & agitation had to be precisely followed or your film would be utterly ruined. But since then I have learned people people successfully at many different temperatures, agitation schemes, durations. I am not recommending this, but even if you are off your target temperature several degrees or off the duration by minute it will not make as big a difference as you might think. It is an experiment you can try. In my opinion the real reason to be precise about developing parameters is about consistency. If you are not consistent with whatever parameters you choose, if there is problem it will be difficult isolating it and correcting it because there will many potential variables in play.

Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant I will not stray from the 68F path. That is, I will do whatever I have to do to get the developer solution to 68F. Sometimes I first take the temp of the distilled water I'm going to use, and if it's too warm, I'll measure the water into a beaker and shove it in the fridge while I load the film, get the other stuff I'll need into place, and then add the developer.

Ken Bingham · Jul 24, 2019

Jens Hallfeldt said:
Hi Ken,

some very good answers so far, just some more words...:

Ilford Pan F Plus in 120 works great with Rodinal 1:25 or 1:50.

I expose it @ 25ASA for normal contrast situations. Nice tonality in 120 (and even 135), still fine and nice grain.
If the subject has a high contrast, give it more light (16ASA) and reduce dev time.
Anyway other developers work better (PMK or two bath devs) here.

Ilford Pan F Plus likes to be developed soon after exposure, best within a week.

Rodinal works very good at 20°C or colder, I used it even @16°C with success. You agitation is fine.

Use destilled water to make the working solution and do this just before developement (as said before).
I do so for all solutions except the final washing.

Finally my dev times:

Agitation 30sec, then once a minute, small tank, PanF plus 120, prewash 2 minutes in dest. water

1:25; 20°C
normal contrast subjects (N dev), 25ASA, 6 minutes
high contrast subjects (N- dev), 16ASA, 4 minutes

1:25; 18°C
normal contrast subjects (N dev), 25ASA, 7.5 minutes
high contrast subjects (N- dev), 16ASA, 5 minutes

1:50; 20°C
normal contrast subjects (N dev), 25ASA, 11 minutes
high contrast subjects (N- dev), 16ASA, 7.5 minutes

1:50; 18°C
normal contrast subjects (N dev), 25ASA, 13 minutes
high contrast subjects (N- dev), 16ASA, 9 minutes

Best
Jens

Jens, it seems we think alike. Thanks for confirming my various hunches.

Ken Bingham · Jul 24, 2019

destroya said:
Dont be tempted, no matter what you read, to think stand development will solve all your problems. I have had more developer disasters doing stand development than all other developer disasters combined. try if you must, but dont expect magic. stick to 1+50 and be happy. keep it simple!

Stand development has never much interested me, not up to this point. As for dilution, for now I'll choose either 1:25 or 1:50. I'm tempted by the 1:50 because of the effect of the extra time the film is in the developer, even if the mixture is ultimately weaker. I saw dramatic improvements when I moved from ID-11 stock to 1:1. That kind of experience speaks to me. I still have to order the Rodinal. I've got time to think about it. Thanks for the advice!

bluechromis · Jul 24, 2019

Rollei Retro 80 S 35 mm. Hoya R72 filter. For the shots that used the IR filter the EI was approx. 3. For the other shots the EI was 25. Rodinol 50 + 1 20 C. 7 mins.

RalphLambrecht · Jul 25, 2019

bluechromis said:
Rollei Retro 80 S 35 mm. Hoya R72 filter. For the shots that used the IR filter the EI was approx. 3. For the other shots the EI was 25. Rodinol 50 + 1 20 C. 7 mins.View attachment 227415

what a superb image;congrats!

mooseontheloose · Jul 25, 2019

bluechromis said:
Rollei Retro 80 S 35 mm. Hoya R72 filter. For the shots that used the IR filter the EI was approx. 3. For the other shots the EI was 25. Rodinol 50 + 1 20 C. 7 mins.View attachment 227415

RalphLambrecht said:
what a superb image;congrats!

I agree! I like shooting both flavours of the Rollei Retro, but I need to do more with its infrared capabilities.

John51 · Jul 25, 2019

Ken Bingham said:
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant I will not stray from the 68F path. That is, I will do whatever I have to do to get the developer solution to 68F. Sometimes I first take the temp of the distilled water I'm going to use, and if it's too warm, I'll measure the water into a beaker and shove it in the fridge while I load the film, get the other stuff I'll need into place, and then add the developer.

No need to be that rigorous as the time/temp chart is accurate. My town water is too cold to use straight out of the tap. I keep 3 x 2 litre milk bottles in the kitchen filled with water so is at room temp. After mixing the dev and the citric acid stop, the rest of the 6 litres gets used for washing. Is about 10 changes of water and works fine. Just before pouring in the dev, I measure the temp and refer to the chart. When done souping, I refill the milk bottles so they'll be ready tomorrow.

btw, it is advised that whatever the dilution, there should be a minimum of 5ml of Rodinal per film. Some have got away with 3ml but ymmv on that.

Ken Bingham · Jul 25, 2019

bluechromis said:
Rollei Retro 80 S 35 mm. Hoya R72 filter. For the shots that used the IR filter the EI was approx. 3. For the other shots the EI was 25. Rodinol 50 + 1 20 C. 7 mins.View attachment 227415

Well, if I produce something like this, I'll consider the venture a success. Nice.

Ken Bingham · Jul 25, 2019

John51 said:
No need to be that rigorous as the time/temp chart is accurate. My town water is too cold to use straight out of the tap. I keep 3 x 2 litre milk bottles in the kitchen filled with water so is at room temp. After mixing the dev and the citric acid stop, the rest of the 6 litres gets used for washing. Is about 10 changes of water and works fine. Just before pouring in the dev, I measure the temp and refer to the chart. When done souping, I refill the milk bottles so they'll be ready tomorrow.

btw, it is advised that whatever the dilution, there should be a minimum of 5ml of Rodinal per film. Some have got away with 3ml but ymmv on that.

That's the kind of nuggets I was hoping for when I created the thread. Thanks!

Ken Bingham · Jul 25, 2019

jimjm said:
Rodinal won't impart any magical look to your negatives, but it may affect acutance, or the perception of edge sharpness. You may or may not like the results you get with certain films, but use of Rodinal for most folks over other developers is just a matter of personal preference.
I have used it at 1:50 with 120 Fuji Acros and TMax100, and been happy with the results. The biggest plus is the really long shelf life of the concentrate.
As long as your development time is reasonably long enough, 5 mins or more, you don't need to be super-critical when pouring out the developer. A delay of 5 or 10 secs before the stop is introduced will not have any affect on your film.

Bronica SQ-A, Acros 100, Rodinal 1:50
View attachment 227394

Forgot to comment on this image yesterday; what a beautiful shot. Thanks for your notes and nuggets.

Andrew O'Neill · Jul 25, 2019

And when the stock goes black , fret not! It's still good.

Any first-time advice on using Rodinal?

Ken Bingham

koraks

Moderator

Ken Bingham

jimjm

bluechromis

koraks

Moderator

KN4SMF

bluechromis

Paul Howell

David Lyga

RalphLambrecht

Colin Corneau

JensH

destroya

Ken Bingham

Ken Bingham

Ken Bingham

bluechromis

RalphLambrecht

mooseontheloose

John51

Ken Bingham

Ken Bingham

Ken Bingham

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

Any first-time advice on using Rodinal?

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency