Any film w/ no anti-halation backing? I need a clear film... tapetum lucidum

[Murray Kelly]

For what it's worth, PolyPan F looks exactly like the film George is referring to.
Light grey coating and very clear stock.
Murray

 

[georgegrosu]

Color film EASTMAN Fine Grain Release Positive Film 5302 is yellowish white – see "pozitiv an 35 mm 3" - http://www.flickr.com/photos/21121448@N06/4237563961/
Because I can not to obtain the actual color film in the picture I inserted a rectangle of color.
George

 

[hrst]

BW print film emulsions look yellowish because they don't need to be red- or green-sensitive because they are printed from BW negs in lab. So, they may have no spectral sensitization dyes and the halides absorb only blue wavelengths, resulting a yellowish film.

Of course, when the film has response only to blue, the antihalo dyes (if they use them) can also be yellow (they don't need to be black), because green and red halos and blurs are not recorded by the halides.

 

[Fanshaw]

Lucky film is on a clear base and does not have an anti-halo backing either, I believe.

 

[fschifano]

Lucky film is on a clear base and does not have an anti-halo backing either, I believe.

Yes, they do. They are not as effective as the anti-halo backing on better films, but there is some measure of anti-halo property.

 

[georgegrosu]

I think my English has made you think that the picture is with Lucky film. As I wrote in post 23 here “Not take into account what is written on the tape. It is one of the boxes that I reuse with various films”- like EASTMAN Fine Grain Release Positive Film 5302.
EASTMAN Fine Grain Release Positive Film 5302 is a movie film and comes in large boxes. Cinematographic film processing laboratories have pieces of film (20 - 50 m) that no longer use. Perhaps that may be an idea.
Another issue I want to mention. EASTMAN Fine Grain Release Positive Film 5302 is designed for general release printing. EASTMAN Fine Grain Release Positive Film 5302 has in recommended treatment process a high contrast ~ 2.6.
As a negative film you need to bring in developing at a reasonable contrast ~ 0.7.

George

 

[holmburgers]

Wow, sorry for no replies whatsoever, I was out of commission all weekend.

I'm glad to have stirred such interest. I hope to try it out soon, and I'll do some researching of all the films you all spoke of.

I guess the crappy part is, unless there was an 800 or 1600 speed film w/o this AH backing I wouldn't really be gaining any speed over what is readily available.

However, that's not the point I guess. Soaking off the AH backing seems like a great idea though, and that would work w/ say... 3200! Thus, perhaps gaining the fastest film ever.

PM me if anyone has some more ideas, but thanks so much for the ideas thus far. We've got a great community here.

Happy 2010 and cheers!

 

[Filmer]

There is a site called, soup du jour, that talks about alternative processes in Motion Picture labs. THEY offer removal of remjet before filming so that the cinematographer can get a special look to the film when it is developed...(an other-worldly halo around everything!) It is one of the tricks used. But a risky one. In the usual circumstances, Remjet must be removed during processing before first developer. Alkili solution for Kodachrome. Water, perhaps, for e-6 & c41. I think. Anyway, what were you saying about cat's eyes? Will butterfly wing dust make a good reflective coating? John Coffman

 

[Rick A]

So far this has been all about film. What are you planning to use for the mirror, standard or first surface type? I can see it making a huge difference in halo size, with distance light travels after the film doubling as well.

Rick

 

[cmacd123]

Since I play with movie film from time to time....
Colour Movie negatve has that Black rem-jet coating. You would have to remove that without getting the emulsion wet to get out the AH layer. C-41 and E-6 films tend to have an AH layer between the emulsion and the base. often a thin layer of Silver as that will come out in the colour bleach.
B&W Movie negative has a grey base like similar still film.
5302 is a very slow blue sensitive film, these days you may find it as 2302 on ESTAR base. 5302 is sometimes used as a leader in the labs (light struck leader" so if you are looking for ends make sure that they know you want to use it as film. the 2302 probaly would share the propensity of poly film to light pipe. Starting ASA is around 3 to 6 for these
The Shanghi 120 film is supposed to not have too much AH properties. might be worth looking into.

 

[holmburgers]

Filmer mentions this website, but strangely I just came across it independently....

http://www.theasc.com/magazine/nov98/soupdujour/pg5.htm

Basically, someone has beat me to the punch!

and ralnphot, I hadn't given any thought whatsoever to the mirror type. Frankly, I don't know much about mirrors. I'd love to hear your opinions on the matter.

Thanks!

 

[AgX]

The halation effect is in first instance dependant on the thickness of the base. So, using film instead of glass plates is already a great achievement on halation reduction.
In case you would have a film without any halation means, you would have some halo forming reflection at the backside of the film base. However, some light would enter under a steep angle into the glass of the mirror, and be reflected at its backside, even more than in the old glassplate.
Using a first surface mirror would decrease that halo-effect a lot.

 

[David William White]

I did a first test, same subject & exposure, one sheet with the AH layer washed off and tin-foil backing in the holder. I was using Ortho 25 film (thick base, really heavy deep blue anti-halation layer). Both developed back-to-back for the same time. The subject did not have any pinpoint specular reflections or suchlike, just under diffuse artificial light. Upon enlargement, I noticed the overall edge contrast (and apparent sharpness) was reduced. That makes sense now.

When I next get a chance, I'll shoot some pinpoint lights at night or something similar. If anything interesting materializes, I'll post side-by-side comparisons here.

 

[holmburgers]

Awesome, sounds like a good test. Keep us posted!