Any concerns over temp variation in paper development?

Alan9940 · Jun 9, 2022

Need a little input from all you wet darkroom experts...

Now that it's summer here in the desert southwest, ambient temp in my darkroom is running at about 82F. I normally don't do any printing during the summer months, but I'd really like to not waste this time. Therefore, I did a little experimenting this morning with an 8x10 tray containing 1L of water floating in a larger tray containing about 4L water, both trays at 70F. Every so often, I would rock the 8x10 tray for a couple of mins as if I was developing a sheet of paper. Monitoring the temp of the water bath and using ice to keep the temp regulated, I ran the experiment for what would be a normal length darkroom session for me and found that the development tray temp could be properly maintained even though the room temp was 12 degrees warmer.

OK, here is where I need some advice. We all know about keeping all our chemistry at about the same temp during film development to avoid reticulation and other issues, but is this of concern with paper development? Would I have any issues with developing the paper developer at 70F, then moving to stop/fix/wash at 80 - 82F?

Thank you all.

Sirius Glass · Jun 9, 2022

During the summer I do not worry about warmer temperatures when I am printing. My concern is keeping the temperature down for film processing, preferably below 75°F [24°C]

darkroommike · Jun 9, 2022

Alan9940 said:
Need a little input from all you wet darkroom experts...

Now that it's summer here in the desert southwest, ambient temp in my darkroom is running at about 82F. I normally don't do any printing during the summer months, but I'd really like to not waste this time. Therefore, I did a little experimenting this morning with an 8x10 tray containing 1L of water floating in a larger tray containing about 4L water, both trays at 70F. Every so often, I would rock the 8x10 tray for a couple of mins as if I was developing a sheet of paper. Monitoring the temp of the water bath and using ice to keep the temp regulated, I ran the experiment for what would be a normal length darkroom session for me and found that the development tray temp could be properly maintained even though the room temp was 12 degrees warmer.

OK, here is where I need some advice. We all know about keeping all our chemistry at about the same temp during film development to avoid reticulation and other issues, but is this of concern with paper development? Would I have any issues with developing the paper developer at 70F, then moving to stop/fix/wash at 80 - 82F?

Thank you all.

If I am comfortable working in the room in normal attire, I consider that to be all the "temp control" I need for printing. If it's too hot or too cold in the darkroom to work without bundling up or stripping down I'll find another hobby to work on that day.

Patrick Robert James · Jun 9, 2022

If you are talking about black and white printing then don't bother. 82º isn't that bad. I do it all the time.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2022

What everyone else has said.
I would be concerned about the big jump from developer temperature to stop bath temperature. If I was going to maintain a colder than ambient developer temperature, I would do the same with the stop bath as well - just because of concern about the stopping action being uniform.

gone · Jun 9, 2022

I don't think that sort of temperature difference matters too much w/ paper.

I once asked the same question here, and Matt mentioned that he always developed his stuff at room temp. Later, I noticed that he was in Canada, and I was in Arizona! Room temperature is a relative thing.

In my case, it made no difference at all, and it must have been 80-90 degrees F, because that's my usual comfort area. Chemical reactions like heat, that's probably all I remember from school science of 55 years ago.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2022

FWIW, there are a couple of print developers that you don't want to use in colder temperatures.
But I think if you can stand 80F, your developer and paper can too.
You might find it practical to adjust dilution, if prints are developing rapidly and showing tendency to fog.

Alan9940 · Jun 9, 2022

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm perfectly comfortable working in an 80F room. My concern with having a working paper developer at that temp is that I usually use Amidol for the silver chloride paper I use for my 8x10 negs. Given that the normal development time for Amidol at normal room temp is about 1 min, it's going to be a crazy fast development at 80F! Also, doesn't leave much room for water bath treatment to reduce contrast. Maybe I should use a different paper developer?

MattKing · Jun 10, 2022

Your use of Amidol is an important fact for this discussion!
Can it be diluted further to slow development?

Alan9940 · Jun 10, 2022

MattKing said:
Your use of Amidol is an important fact for this discussion!
Can it be diluted further to slow development?

Don't know because I've always used it straight. I'll do a little research and see if that's an option. I know of a photographer who contact prints on Adox Lupex (my contact paper of choice) and his standard developer is Amidol. But, he has been testing other paper developers and determined, so far, that Ilford MG Developer with this paper is not good and that Dektol looks like it might be workable. Maybe, I'll mix up some D-72 and give that a try...

GregY · Jun 10, 2022

Photo Formulary (Ansco) 130 is a fine developer for contact prints. I never used Lupex but used it with both Azo and Lodima with very good results.

Alan9940 · Jun 10, 2022

GregY said:
Photo Formulary (Ansco) 130 is a fine developer for contact prints. I never used Lupex but used it with both Azo and Lodima with very good results.

Just happen to have some glycin in the freezer. I'll give that developer a try, too. Thanks, Greg.

jvo · Jun 11, 2022

I've lived in NY and Florida for the past 20 years... always processed prints at room temperature, no hot or cold baths - no problem. the temp always within a degree of 70 degrees f.

Paul Howell · Jun 11, 2022

I also live in the low desert. When I had a full size darkroom built in my garage I was keep temp at 70 with a chiller. When we moved to townhouse and had to make do with a converted large bath without a chiller I used 11X14 trays with small bags of ice, over time I figured that processing up to 75 degrees does make a difference in final the final print. Some will ague that process at higher temp will affect highlights, I have not seen it.

reddesert · Jun 11, 2022

I know nothing about Amidol. With more ordinary developers, I don't think the difference between 70 and 80 deg would be noticeable beyond the shorter dev time. I think it takes a much bigger jump than 80 to 70 deg to cause reticulation or emulsion damage usually, and I also think it would be harder to see effects on paper.

(Moderate) heat is better than cold. In college, I made some prints in a unheated darkroom in winter, and later I figured out that the reason they looked rather crap and lacked contrast or deep tones is that developer doesn't work that well at 55 F.

Craig · Jun 14, 2022

Unlike film, paper is developed to completion, so the temperature shouldn't make any difference to the final print. You'll probably find shorter developing times than the standard 20°C recommendation though.

unityofsaints · Jun 29, 2022

I wait for the emergence time and add 3x that. Currently in winter I get between 2mins 15s total time and 3mins. In summer it was more like 1 minute 30 secs if memory serves.

Bill Burk · Jun 29, 2022

I experimented with Mortensen’s 9 minutes development idea a while back.

There is allegedly more plasticity in the higher values. I think I could see it, there is a difference.

Point is, it might be nice to give your prints greater development. You may come to the conclusion that your summer series look better than your winter prints.

Alan9940 · Jun 29, 2022

Bill Burk said:
Point is, it might be nice to give your prints greater development. You may come to the conclusion that your summer series look better than your winter prints.

Great point, Bill, never thought of it in that way. Thanks!

DREW WILEY · Jun 29, 2022

Significantly deviating from standard temp often has another unwanted side effect : separate ingredients in the formula might respond differently in respective activity than normally. The result might a difference in final image color, or in the precise response of toners. If you are picky about exact image tone, like I am, this can be important. Some VC papers might tend to "split print", tone-wise, in an unwanted manner. But there is no way to outline all the potential outcomes. Best to specifically test when in question. Better still to use a controlled temp water jacket around the developing tray itself - easy to do.

I totally disagree with Craig's post. "Going to completion" can mean what a thermonuclear bomb does. It's hard to control and fine-tune excessively high temp development. And that especially applies to all the numerous variations of the several mentioned developers on this thread so far : amidol-based, glycin-based, cold tone MQ tweaks like D72. And to further complicate things, glycin activity and color-effect shifts with age and oxidation, even unopened bottles of powder unless you store them in the freezer.

Any concerns over temp variation in paper development?

Alan9940

Sirius Glass

darkroommike

Patrick Robert James

MattKing

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gone

MattKing

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Alan9940

MattKing

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Alan9940

GregY

Alan9940

jvo

Paul Howell

reddesert

Craig

unityofsaints

Bill Burk

Alan9940

DREW WILEY

Any concerns over temp variation in paper development?

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