Anxious for any news about the return of ((ORWO))

[mohmad khatab]

The official page entitled (orwofilm) On Instagram, I posted this link with an interesting article,
The article is in German and the electronic translator did not succeed in explaining the exact details.
Could someone explain to me, please ,, what did I understand from this article?

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Looks like Filmotec GmBh, the manufacturer of Orwo line of films including Orwo UN54 and N75, has new owners now.

 

[mohmad khatab]

Looks like Filmotec GmBh, the manufacturer of Orwo line of films including Orwo UN54 and N75, has new owners now.

Yes ,, I understood that part ..
But what are their plans about color film

 

[koraks]

But what are their plans about color film

It doesn't say.

 

[relistan]

The official page entitled (orwofilm) On Instagram, I posted this link with an interesting article,
The article is in German and the electronic translator did not succeed in explaining the exact details.
Could someone explain to me, please ,, what did I understand from this article?

View attachment 269846

In this video Nico covers all the news as of three months ago, if it helps.

 

[Henning Serger]

It doesn't say.

Exactly.
The source - "Bild" Zeitung - is a kind of yellow press, lower quality publication. And there aren't any real news in this article. What is said has been well known and discussed here on photrio in two threads in the "Industry News" subforum for months.
No further real news so far.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[cmacd123]

what has been metioned elsewhere on photrio, is that a venture capital film has bought control of both filmotec, who has been marking B&W motion picture stocks forthe motion pictre industry, and has the rights to use the oRWO name at least for those products - and inoviscoat who has one of Agfa Germany film coating lines and has been making master rolls of various films - including some of the off-colour ones sold by Lomography.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...ial-producers-inoviscoat-and-filmotec.179514/

now of course their was another thread wher Mr. Campbell who runs US distributor ORWONA indicated that he was expecting filmotec to magically start producing colour film. {As far as anyone knows - Filmotec may very well do the conversion of the films that they sell, but the ORWO coating lines were believed to have been destroyed when the main ORWO factory closed. In other words, up to this point filmotec has had another player actually coating the film that they sell in the Motion Picture market.}

The tradional ORWO colour films were based on per WWII agfa patents.and it the very least were different technology than C-41 and E6. If Photo Engineer was still alive he could explain the differences.

I am just hoping that something will allow filmotec to continue making a useable 400 ASA B&W negative film. I have only shot a few rolls of the new N75 negative and found that the anti-halo seems dark, and that the rating of 320 ASA is probably correct. (the N75 roll I got also does not have the KeyCode style coding, as though it was converted on an older machine)

 

[relistan]

I am just hoping that something will allow filmotec to continue making a useable 400 ASA B&W negative film. I have only shot a few rolls of the new N75 negative and found that the anti-halo seems dark, and that the rating of 320 ASA is probably correct. (the N75 roll I got also does not have the KeyCode style coding, as though it was converted on an older machine)

Agreed, I have 100ft of N75 and the base is dark, even when developed. This, I think, may be 100% responsible for the drop in speed from N74+ as it brings up the b+f level. It does print just fine, though.

 

[laingsoft]

I did an interview with George Campbell a while back. Orwo is looking into color films, but cinematography is the main selling point for these guys, so until they have some orders from some film production, it's not likely that it'll filter down to use lowly photographic peasants.

 

[cmacd123]

I did an interview with George Campbell a while back. Orwo is looking into color films, but cinematography is the main selling point for these guys, so until they have some orders from some film production, it's not likely that it'll filter down to use lowly photographic peasants.

and anyone shooting a movie is wanting tested proven stock...Plus Movie stock is (for good reason) a different process for Negative,, and only things like Music videos use colour reversal. B&W movie film is no problem, as the still developing times are different than the movie developing times and so the still photographers compensate the gamma without sometimes even being aware of the issue.

unfortunatly although I like George and think I even have him on my facebook list, I do find his statements hard to give full credit to on this subject. Having said that the two companies, the one who coats film and the one who converts film for MP formats are now under the same ownership, so the overriding management may tell them to work together on some product intended for still photography. Certainly it would be trivial for filmotec to slit and Perforate almost any film master rolls from the other firm, using Positive (KS1870) perforations and having some one else put that into cassettes.

 

[laingsoft]

Right, I mean I only know what I know from my interview with him, the entirety of which is available, unedited on my podcast. I'd think that the target for a product for a cinema film like this is going to be independent film studios that want more stock options rather than Kodak. Although I do agree, I would probably see small studios using digital over a second rate film stock, given that stock would be a significant investment. The point though, is that even one studio running a 30 minute film will buy more film than 10 or 20 photographers. All they'd need to do in order to sell an ECN2 film as a C41 film is to market it as a "quirky" film with a "different color palette". The stability of the dyes to that crowd typically also won't be an issue as well.

That said, I do know that there is some connected relationships between lomography and Orwo/Filmotec/Inoviscoat. I'd think it's safe to say that any C41 film from orwo is likely going to have Lomo branding.

 

[relistan]

That said, I do know that there is some connected relationships between lomography and Orwo/Filmotec/Inoviscoat. I'd think it's safe to say that any C41 film from orwo is likely going to have Lomo branding.

Yes, InovisCoat makes all the funky Lomo color films AFAIK. I have seen it hypothesized, and it seems right to me, that these are really experiments on the way to a proper color film, but merchandisable as Lomo film along the way. I believe the hookup with ORWO is a good outcome for both Filmotec and InovisCoat as it brings a couple of very complementary businesses under the same umbrella. I suspect we will see more B&W efforts in the still film arena from them soon as well.

 

[Henning Serger]

Hello Charles,

now of course their was another thread wher Mr. Campbell who runs US distributor ORWONA indicated that he was expecting filmotec to magically start producing colour film. {As far as anyone knows - Filmotec may very well do the conversion of the films that they sell, but the ORWO coating lines were believed to have been destroyed when the main ORWO factory closed. In other words, up to this point filmotec has had another player actually coating the film that they sell in the Motion Picture market.}

unfortunately quite a lot of what Mr. Campbell said was not correct. That has been already discussed in an other thread here on photrio.
It is correct that both InovisCoat and FilmoTec are now cooperating and have the same new owners.
InovisCoat is able to do both BW and colour emulsions, and they have access via long-term contracts to all the machinery including coating of the Inovisproject factory (which is a daughter company of Polaroid) in certain time slots.
But they don't have any film or paper confectioning abilities.
FilmoTec can make BW emulsions, but they don't have an own coating line. They cooperated with partners for coating. Meanwhile FilmoTec is their partner for it. They can convert raw film into movie film formats, but they don't have any own confectioning capabilities for 135 and 120 film. An outside partner is needed for that.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

I did an interview with George Campbell a while back. Orwo is looking into color films, but cinematography is the main selling point for these guys, so until they have some orders from some film production, it's not likely that it'll filter down to use lowly photographic peasants.

Unfortunately Mr. Campbell wasn't very well informed at that time. Some statements were wrong.
FilmoTec has never been into colour film, but InovisCoat. I visited InovisCoat in 2019, and they were in R&D for colour photo still film at that time (C41). That project has had some severe setbacks since then, and we will just have to wait and see whether they may succeed in the future. All speculation is a waste of time.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Donald Qualls]

All speculation is a waste of time.

We're film photographers. Wasting time what we do!

 

[Henning Serger]

We're film photographers. Wasting time what we do!

I definitely don't consider my photography a waste of time. Just the opposite .
And going out, making some photographs and enjoying the process and the results is certainly much better spent time compared to sitting at the computer spreading speculation.......
Just my opinion. But maybe I am just too old-fashioned .

Best regards,
Henning

 

[mohmad khatab]

Exactly.
The source - "Bild" Zeitung - is a kind of yellow press, lower quality publication. And there aren't any real news in this article. What is said has been well known and discussed here on photrio in two threads in the "Industry News" subforum for months.
No further real news so far.

Best regards,
Henning

Oh my God ,
Yellow journalism in all fields, even the field of analog photography, could not escape yellow journalism.
Damn the yellow press.

 

[mohmad khatab]

We're film photographers. Wasting time what we do!

This is the first time that I have found myself compelled to agree with you.
You already said an impressive and respectful phrase.
You said a brilliant wisdom, man. Greetings to you from Egypt. Actually next to the pyramids.
God bless you

 

[Henning Serger]

FilmoTec can make BW emulsions, but they don't have an own coating line. They cooperated with partners for coating. Meanwhile FilmoTec is their partner for it.

It of course must be "Meanwhile InovisCoat is their (FilmoTec's) partner for that". One result of their new cooperation and partnership.
I am very sorry for my typo! That happens when you are writing too fast, but thinking too slow.......
Thanks Karl for finding the typo .

Best regards,
Henning

 

[mohmad khatab]

It of course must be "Meanwhile InovisCoat is their (FilmoTec's) partner for that". One result of their new cooperation and partnership.
I am very sorry for my typo! That happens when you are writing too fast, but thinking too slow.......
Thanks Karl for finding the typo .

Best regards,
Henning

No problem, dear teacher, God bless you.
We are all subject to such errors,
- We are the photographers ,, we are like the lover who waits for any gesture or gaze from his lover, wishes and dreams that you only gesture or look at him.
This is our situation.
Dreams are the only free thing in this wild planet.
Yes, I and a large group of poor photographers dream that this cooperation and partnership that occurred in the production of a positive and negative color film will succeed.
- The most important thing in all of that story is that it is cheap.
It doesn't matter who produces it
We are ready to accept writing on the package (Made by Luciver "Satan) ,, it's okay ,, I will gladly accept that as long as it is inexpensive and gives the minimum required quality.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I and a large group of poor photographers dream that this cooperation and partnership that occurred in the production of a positive and negative color film will succeed.
- The most important thing in all of that story is that it is cheap.

Even if Orwo starts making color films again, it's unlikely that they will be cheap. Orwo increased the price of its cheap UN54 B&W film so much since the change of ownership that the official Indian distributor for the film stopped stocking it.

 

[relistan]

Even if Orwo starts making color films again, it's unlikely that they will be cheap. Orwo increased the price of its cheap UN54 B&W film so much since the change of ownership that the official Indian distributor for the film stopped stocking it.

I agree it won’t be cheap. Regarding UN54 pricing, it seems to me that 100ft is not quite €5 more than it was a few years ago. What size price change are you seeing?

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

I agree it won’t be cheap. Regarding UN54 pricing, it seems to me that 100ft is not quite €5 more than it was a few years ago. What size price change are you seeing?

I discussed it here.

 

[relistan]

I discussed it here.

wow, I can safely say that was never a price available in Europe or the USA in the time I’ve been paying attention to ORWO pricing (2014 or so). That’s a big jump, to the same price available elsewhere.

 

[Henning Serger]

Yes, I and a large group of poor photographers dream that this cooperation and partnership that occurred in the production of a positive and negative color film will succeed.
- The most important thing in all of that story is that it is cheap.
It doesn't matter who produces it

If you expect these potential new colour films to be cheaper than the current cheap colour films from Fujifilm and Kodak (like C200 and ColorPlus 200), then you will be disappointed.
Because InovisCoat cannot undercut these Fujifilm and Kodak prices. It is impossible, both from a technological and economic perspective ( I have visited that factory).
Fujifilm and Kodak have technological cost advantages like one-pass coating and own, huge confectioning capabilities, and economical advantages like much better economies of scale because of demand and production of many million units of their cheap films p.a..
InovisCoat cannot compete with that. They of course know that and don't want to compete in that very difficult and competitive market segment.

And one general assassment about this topic:
Fujicolor C200 is currently the cheapest colour film here in Europe. In Germany I pay 3.99€ for one film. If I consider inflation, which is the only economically correct way of calculation of prices over long time periods, then I pay less today compared to 30 years ago. Film processing and RA-4 prints are also cheaper here than 30 years ago.
And if we look at the film revival globally, we see that there is a huge increase in film demand not only in the industrialized countries, but also in the developing and NIC countries with significantly less income per capita.. For example there is a strong boom in film photography in low(er) income countries like Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Phillipines, Georgia, Russia, China etc..
That is a clear indicator that at least the cheaper film types are affordable for film photographers in these low(er) income countries.

Best regards,
Henning