Anti-Freeze for developers

donbga · Apr 6, 2006

I need to mix a fresh batch of pyro-cat part A and I'm interested in using glycol as the solvent as discussed so often in the past year or so.

Having done an extensive search here on APUG I've noticed that propylene glycol seems to be the prefered gylcol solvent but ethylene glycol has also been mentioned.

Ethylene glycol as noted in these threads is poisonous so it may less desirable for that reason.

My question is though, I have a gallon of Preston Anti-Freeze in my garage and the label states that the product has an ethylene glycol base. Is it suitable for use for mixing developers?

Thanks,

srs5694 · Apr 7, 2006

As reported in one of his Photo Techniques articles, Patrick Gainer did some early experiments with anti-freeze and got good results. I've also used propylene glycol anti-freeze in the PC-Glycol I've mixed, again with good results. The problem, though, is that you really don't know what else is in the anti-freeze. The manufacturer might add things that could negatively impact a developer, and the additives might differ from one brand to another or even from one production run to another.

Overall, I'd say that if you're interested in experimenting and risking at least the first roll of film or two, go ahead and try it. If you want to stick with the safest possible path, buy pure propylene glycol from a chemical supplier.

Gerald Koch · Apr 7, 2006

I have said this before on other similar threads, antifreeze contains other chemicals that could have an adverse effect on film. Even though you test manufacturers can change formulations at any time. Propylene glycol is cheap while film is expensive. Why run the risk of ruining your negatives. You can get it at www.chemistrystore.com.

gainer · Apr 7, 2006

I have to agree. I still have some of the gallon of propylene antifreeze I got for those experiments. I have used propylene glycol from The Chemistry Store ever since, not because the antifreeze didn't work, but because my conscience would hurt if I recommended it and it didn't work for someone else. Both TEA and propylene glycol from Chemistry Store are pure enough for photo use, cost about $16 a gallon + shipping and are not hazardous material. The Chemistry Store, as you will see when you visit the site, caters to makers of soaps and cosmetics.

Ethylene glycol will work, but if you decide to try the antifreeze, do a small batch and as Gerald said do not stake your life or reputation on it being the same in every jug. The biggest problem with ethylene glycol is that it is sweet, thus attractive to dogs and kids, and is poisonous. It is not poisonous to photographs, so with proper care you could use it.

donbga · Apr 7, 2006

gainer said:
I have to agree. I still have some of the gallon of propylene antifreeze I got for those experiments. I have used propylene glycol from The Chemistry Store ever since, not because the antifreeze didn't work, but because my conscience would hurt if I recommended it and it didn't work for someone else. Both TEA and propylene glycol from Chemistry Store are pure enough for photo use, cost about $16 a gallon + shipping and are not hazardous material. The Chemistry Store, as you will see when you visit the site, caters to makers of soaps and cosmetics.

Ethylene glycol will work, but if you decide to try the antifreeze, do a small batch and as Gerald said do not stake your life or reputation on it being the same in every jug. The biggest problem with ethylene glycol is that it is sweet, thus attractive to dogs and kids, and is poisonous. It is not poisonous to photographs, so with proper care you could use it.

Thanks everyone, my gut feeling was that using anti-freeze has all of the risks ya'll have mentioned. Just thought I would ask first though.

donbga · Apr 7, 2006

gainer said:
I have to agree. I still have some of the gallon of propylene antifreeze I got for those experiments. I have used propylene glycol from The Chemistry Store ever since, not because the antifreeze didn't work, but because my conscience would hurt if I recommended it and it didn't work for someone else. Both TEA and propylene glycol from Chemistry Store are pure enough for photo use, cost about $16 a gallon + shipping and are not hazardous material. The Chemistry Store, as you will see when you visit the site, caters to makers of soaps and cosmetics.

Ethylene glycol will work, but if you decide to try the antifreeze, do a small batch and as Gerald said do not stake your life or reputation on it being the same in every jug. The biggest problem with ethylene glycol is that it is sweet, thus attractive to dogs and kids, and is poisonous. It is not poisonous to photographs, so with proper care you could use it.

One more question. What color is propylene glycol? I'm just curious. Anti-freeze has that day-glo green color.

Tom Hoskinson · Apr 7, 2006

The Propylene Glycol that I have purchased from Artcraft and The Chemistry Store is colorless.

Photo Engineer · Apr 7, 2006

Most every fluid used for automobiles is dyed with a different colored dye, so that a leak can be quickly diagnosed. Even gasoline has a dye and a chemical that enhances its odor.

The point about color brings up the fact that there is a colored additive in the ethylene glycol anti-freeze. This and other addenda alluded to above may have variable effects on film and paper developed in a developer compounded with anti-freeze.

PE

avandesande · Apr 7, 2006

They put phosphates and other corrosion inhibitors in antifreeze.

donbga · Apr 7, 2006

Photo Engineer said:
Most every fluid used for automobiles is dyed with a different colored dye, so that a leak can be quickly diagnosed. Even gasoline has a dye and a chemical that enhances its odor.

The point about color brings up the fact that there is a colored additive in the ethylene glycol anti-freeze. This and other addenda alluded to above may have variable effects on film and paper developed in a developer compounded with anti-freeze.

PE

PE,

In this gave it seems that it is better "To ask for permission rather than for forgiveness."

Thanks for the input, I'll just order the propylene glycol from The Chemistry Store. I've been ordering chemicals from them for several years.

Anti-Freeze for developers

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