• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Anti fogging dditions to emulsion

Somewhere...

D
Somewhere...

  • 3
  • 1
  • 71
Iriana

H
Iriana

  • 6
  • 1
  • 137

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
202,745
Messages
2,844,977
Members
101,494
Latest member
FlyingDutchman
Recent bookmarks
0

kevin klein

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Messages
194
Format
Large Format
I am still trying to lift the slight fog from my positive plates (tins), the last test emulsion was bromide only, no iodide, it is a slight improvement over the last tests. In wetplate work we slightly acidify the silver bath to clear up chemical fog in a new bath, I thaught of the same thing for gelatin emulsion but figure there will be a deliterious effect to the structure of the gelatin. I have BZT, but would like some experienced advice on how much to use.

Thanks.
 
Again we used a 10% solution in alcohol for this one. In a developer, we used about 10 mg/l for starters, but in an emulsion we used a different amount for each emulsion. I would start at about 10 mg / mole of Silver. If the fog is gone and speed goes down, lighten up the amount, otherwise keep going up until fog is gone. You may have speed loss in this latter case though. That is why TAI is better. Gram for gram it removes fog fast with little speed loss.

PE
 
Thank you for the info. I must admit ignorance here, I am not familiar with mole or TAI.
 
I just did some checking on silver weight, 1 gram is .0092...... moles. I use only 1 or 2gm of silver in the test mixes, not sure how I would get an accurate measuring of that. Still wonder what TAI is.
 
Tetra Aza Indene, an industry wide antifoggant first used by Agfa. See the references in my book.

It is available from the Formulary.

PE
 
Hi Kevin,

It might be useful to try to eliminate the cause of your fog, rather than try to get rid of it (prevention rather than cure, if that makes sense.) I don't know the details of your recipe or ingredients so I'll just throw a few out. With simple emulsions, which haven't been chemically sensitized, these can include:

1) non-photographic gelatin
2) light leaks somewhere along the line
3) under-washing, especially if your recipe is made with ammonia (under-washing also show itself as tiny crystals on the dried surface of the emulsion, except on paper coatings.)
4) over-washing without returning a bit of halide to the emulsion
5) over-development, which usually happens when someone thinks that's a good way to get more density.

My standard operating procedure is to wash thoroughly and then return a little KBr (potassium bromide) to the washed noodles before melting them and/or right before coating. Different writers say different things about the 'when' of addition, but honestly, I haven't been able to tell the difference as long as it's added after washing. The rule of thumb seems to be (and it works great for me) to add 1-2 drops of 10% KBr for every gram of silver nitrate in the recipe. Every recipe is different, but so it comes down to a little trial and error. Start with one drop and go up if necessary. At some point, your speed will drop (but that can be hard to detect in slow emulsions). If you still have fog at that point, something else is wrong. If light leaks are eliminated, then the problem is almost certainly in your developer or how you are using it.

Emulsion that is made too diluted (not enough silver halide for a given amount of gelatin and water) is a biggie. The problem can be in the original recipe or (more likely) too much water retained in the washed noodles. Really wring those puppies dry! Having the noodles in a sturdy cloth bag helps. I use a cotton jelly straining bag.

A second way to get thin emulsion is during the coating, even a vigorous emulsion. If it goes on too warm (thin viscosity) or you pour too much off, there won't be enough emulsion on the plate to make a vigorous image.

Over-development can't deliver a good density to a thin emulsion, it will only deliver fog.

Good luck. Looking forward to seeing your tins!
d
 
Last edited by a moderator:
An interesting side note. I am developing my plates (tins) in D19 with thyocyanate, they clear by themselves in the developer as if it is a self fixing action, they do not seem to develop any further but I still put them in the fixer.
 
An interesting side note. I am developing my plates (tins) in D19 with thyocyanate, they clear by themselves in the developer as if it is a self fixing action, they do not seem to develop any further but I still put them in the fixer.


sounds perfect to me :smile:
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom