anti-fog for ansco 130?

I have a number of old papers to play with, including some Azo from the 1950s and 1960s. Last night I opened a 'new' pack of 4x5 and found it fogs to a light grey in Ansco 130.

I'd like to hear some recommendations for an anti-fog agent that will work with this developer. Would adding additional Potassium Bromide to my working stock would help? If so, why and what are the limits?

It would. You'll have to experiment as to how much is too much. Benzotriazole will work too but my instinct is to try potassium bromide first.

It may be that any amount won't be enough - that paper is pretty old. How it was stored will be a factor in its usability, too.

There should be some threads on APUG already as to how much potassium bromide to add, but I would try adding about 10-20% more potassium bromide per litre and work your way up from that. At a certain point, the increase in bromides will start to have deleterious effects on your images instead of helping.

If you can afford it, and if you feel up to it, try Amidol. I have found it to be handle fog from aging pretty well.

I have quite successfully used a percentage solution of benzotriazole with ansco 130. You can also use Edwal Liquid Orthazite, which is a more concentrated solution of benzotriazole than you can mix yourself. You just add a bit to your tray of developer and test, and keep adding until you get the results you want. It will decrease the speed of the paper, so you will have to compensate with more exposure. I have been successful in developing Agfa Portriga Rapid and Brovira that expired almost 30 years ago.

You may mix up a 10% solution of Bromide and add it drop by drop as needed.
Or, mix 130 with no metol

http://cgi.ebay.com/Benzotriazole-1...ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

I mixed up a 2% solution in a 40oz beer bottle (mmmmmm.. Miller Highlife). Then I cut up a piece of paper into a bunch of chips, toss one in the fix as a control, then add a capful of benzotriazole to my developer, dev a chip and compare to the just fixed one. Rinse and repeat until it looks good. Too much benzo and you'll start to effect contrast though. Basically $20 will buy you a near lifetime supply of the stuff.

Leave the bromide out altogether and use 15cc 1% benzotriazole/liter. This is my standard developer...Evan Clarke

Lots of old paper threads on apug
Libersky has done a lot using old paper ...using chlorhydroquinone

I had some 1967 Kodabromide that was "to be trashed" it was so badly fogged
well
Upon correct density it would explode in fog no matter how much orthazite/benzotriazole I used
even in lith it would explode just the same. I believe I tried it in chlorhydroquinone, too. Maybe Amidol.
Useless

I never did throw it out probably to fix and inkjet or for whatever experiment at later time
Moved
Put the metal safe it was in in an unused basement area collecting debris and junk
got wet from condensation dripping off old an oil tank
mold

left it there after cleaning mold etc
still couldn't throw it out ..future experiment

Took a sheet out few days ago
agfa 135
fine

Fine? What!?
Tried it all. All OK. Grade 1 even. Minutes in the developer. More extensive tests will likely show need for bit of antifog
It will be OK. Just kinda odd. I don't really need it having many times more fresh -1982- Kodabromide
but neat

Tried some 1978 Portralure paper that fogged well enough to never do anything with and so froze
-very slow warm-toned enlarging paper ..perhaps slowest recently made?
Fine ..not surprising, but still.

Agfa 135 is just a warm-tone developer that's slightly less contrasty
Bromide.

Whatever you do will change 130's qualities somewhat so

Actually, the Edwal Liquid Orthazite is a lower percentage solution than what you can mix yourself.

Sherry at the Formulary recommends 10g Benzo in 500ml water, and using 15-30ml per liter of developer. I've actually gone to as high as 50ml...but the thing that works best for me is a slightly heavier exposure, followed by a short dev time and then treating with pot ferri bleach. Beautiful prints on old Agfa paper...

Thanks everyone, good stuff here.

eclarke, just to be clear, are you saying you leave out the bromide out of the Ansco 130 when compounding?

jmxphoto, I like your test method and will use it in the future. I'll also likely try mixing some Ansco 130 without Metol at some point.

Right now it looks like I'll have to stick to the bromide as that's what I've on hand and try the benzotriazole the next time I order from Formulary.

I've got a number of old papers on hand that I've not yet tried so there's plenty of material for future trials of anti-fog solutions.

eclarke said:

Leave the bromide out altogether and use 15cc 1% benzotriazole/liter. This is my standard developer...Evan Clarke

Click to expand...

I followed Evans' suggestion and was very happy. I then went a step further and use 15cc of 1.5% solution. The whites are outstanding I think, perhaps a tad flat in contrast but I am working on that.

Try Evans' formula, you'll see the difference.

eli griggs said:

Thanks everyone, good stuff here.

eclarke, just to be clear, are you saying you leave out the bromide out of the Ansco 130 when compounding?

jmxphoto, I like your test method and will use it in the future. I'll also likely try mixing some Ansco 130 without Metol at some point.

Right now it looks like I'll have to stick to the bromide as that's what I've on hand and try the benzotriazole the next time I order from Formulary.

I've got a number of old papers on hand that I've not yet tried so there's plenty of material for future trials of anti-fog solutions.

Click to expand...

Yes, and it is my standard developer for all papers. My go to combo is Ilford WT FB. This developer takes theis paper to a SLIGHTLY warm tone and produces lovely detail. It does not kick over to brown in selenium toner like it does with the bromide in the 130...EC

Bruce Osgood said:

I followed Evans' suggestion and was very happy. I then went a step further and use 15cc of 1.5% solution. The whites are outstanding I think, perhaps a tad flat in contrast but I am working on that.

Try Evans' formula, you'll see the difference.

Click to expand...

I found that going past the 15cc of BZT seemed to muddy up the shadows a little. Benzotriazole is a powerful restrainer and increases can retard the activity of the developer. You need to test the amounts in your own environment, though, because everybody's water is different...Evan Clarke