Ansel Adams and other great printers

[cliveh]

Do you think they would have preferred Light room over darkroom?

 

[jtk]

Ansel would certainly have preferred Photoshop over the darkroom (and over Lightroom, the amateur-oriented version of PS), given his enthusiasm for scanning. He was highly tech-oriented. If you compare his prints from same negative, made at different times of his life you'll see how much better the digitally originated reproductions in books are than his original prints often were. Ansel did love shortcuts, as you can see in his Polaroids as well as in the fact that he drove to many of his photographic sites, rather than using a pack animal. As well, many of Ansel's prints were made by people he or his trust employed.

 

[CMoore]

Do you think they would have preferred Light room over darkroom?

If you like driving a race car with a foot clutch and 5 speed hand shiftier, modern day finger-tip shifters are kind of a l bummer.
It all depends..... did he enjoy working in a red-light, darkroom.?
Digital has no equivalent for that........

 

[cliveh]

If you like driving a race car with a foot clutch and 5 speed hand shiftier, modern day finger-tip shifters are kind of a l bummer.
It all depends..... did he enjoy working in a red-light, darkroom.?
Digital has no equivalent for that........

I agree, but my point is photo shop would of allowed far more manipulation of the final image.

 

[Pieter12]

For me, a lot of work done in photoshop is like singers recording with autotune. Even when it's not overdone, there's just something off about it. On the other hand, it is much, much easier to make a good print (make that many multiple prints if you so desire) with judicious use of photoshop and a good printer than an analog print in a wet darkroom. That's a good thing if you don't have the time, facilities or skills.

 

[CMoore]

I agree, but my point is photo shop would of allowed far more manipulation of the final image.

.....and my point is that those are Two Very Different Things.
You cannot shift through 5 speeds of a circa 1975 car as you can in a circa 2015 car. But is THAT what you are after.?

 

[removed account4]

For me, a lot of work done in photoshop is like singers recording with autotune. Even when it's not overdone, there's just something off about it. On the other hand, it is much, much easier to make a good print (make that many multiple prints if you so desire) with judicious use of photoshop and a good printer than an analog print in a wet darkroom. That's a good thing if you don't have the time, facilities or skills.

if uncle answel could use the brakes in the dark i think he could easily put on the brakes in the light.
i think he'd have fun.
part of the mark of a good printer is knowing when to put the brakes on

 

[awty]

Of coarse. He would of profited on writing a whole new series of books and stayed relevant to modern photography.

Darkroom work is for artisans.

 

[markbau]

As well, many of Ansel's prints were made by people he or his trust employed.

You can always tell which ones he personally printed, he signed his complete name on them, if someone else printed them he just initialled the print. "A.A"

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Adams would have enthusiastically embraced electronic imaging. He wrote as much himself. However, based on his correspondence with Edwin Land in the early Polaroid development era, I suspect he'd reject even the best of today's digital prints as insufficiently stable.

My guess is that he would have gone over to digital capture and [pick any capable processing software], but also purchased an imagesetter. Then, he'd have used resulting film negatives -- written at or close to imagesetters' maximum 4000 dpi and tailored with curves for the finest current gelatin silver papers -- to make final prints in his darkroom, reveling in how easy and repeatable it was to crank out multiple copies that still met his standards for print life expectancy.

 

[mshchem]

I agree with Sal, AA would have taken from the best of both analog and digital. I can see him making immense digital negatives and making contact prints etc. God forbid he would have made saturated color HDR shots at sunrise printed on metallic paper.

 

[Bill Burk]

He might be doing what Bob Carnie does - a “continuous tone” imagesetter on Ilford Galerie.

But if I were to wish on the monkey paw, I would want him to “miss out” on the years about 1990 to 2005 when the technology wasn’t all that good.

Could you hear him complaining? “Dang it they discontinued OS9. Now how am I going to hook up my Iris?”

 

[CMoore]

These questions are always silly.
If Jimi Hendrix were alive, would he have ditched tubes, single coils, and been playing Hum-Buckers into Digital/SS Amps.?

NOBODY knows what somebody MIGHT have done.
Ansel might have quit photography altogether and opened a piano Studio/Store.

I am glad he is NOT alive now, and he did what he did with what he had.!

 

[jtk]

You can always tell which ones he personally printed, he signed his complete name on them, if someone else printed them he just initialled the print. "A.A"

That's what some do say. But the most impressive I've seen is a Moonrise mural, apparently glue mounted...in 1971 on the wall of Gene Saunders, the man who did most of his print spotting...and student of Minor White.

 

[jtk]

He never even saw many of the prints made by some of the guys who printed for his trust (from exquisitely good duplicate negs...not just copies of prints)….

 

[CMoore]

That's what some do say. But the most impressive I've seen is a Moonrise mural, apparently glue mounted...in 1971 on the wall of Gene Saunders, the man who did most of his print spotting...and student of Minor White.

I wish i could remember the video (how many could there be)..... Adams had hired some young guy as an assistant, and it was this "Kid" that really put Mr. Adams on the map as far as being a household name, selling lots of books, prints, etc etc.
Was it the 1960's before Adams was making "A Lot" of money from his fine-art pictures.?
Thank You

 

[Vaughn]

The only Ansel Adams silver gelatin prints made by someone else's hand were and are the Special Edition Prints. The first ones were made in 1958, basically it was a way to make the highest quality possible reproductions that could be afforded by visitors to Yosemite National Park and Best Studios. The posters were always well done, also.

https://www.alanrossphotography.com/ansel-adams/yosemite-special-edition-photographs/

As far as the original question -- why would they prefer one over the other? I would assume they would use the tools and process that brings out what they are trying to express with the image they are working with.

 

[jtk]

Just out of curiosity, why the passionate posts about whether an "Ansel" print was printed by his own hand?

I wonder if that was important to him....after all, virtually all of his fans know his work only from books and magazines, some excellent and some of them not.

Sierra Club was surely Ansel's biggest source of publicity until the late 60s.

in the un-attended photo room of San Francisco's old Sierra Club hq I got to explore his prints, which were stacked somewhat casually (not like precious objects). Of special interest was the folding shoji screen, printed by the master himself from Polaroid PN. Not good...he wanted the money ($10K) and for good reason NOT to make more of them. He was probably more proud of the thousands of 5# cans of Hills Brothers Coffee, the "Ansel Adams Edition". Many photographers used those cans as planters for their Mexican seeds.

 

[jtk]

The only Ansel Adams silver gelatin prints made by someone else's hand were and are the Special Edition Prints. The first ones were made in 1958, basically it was a way to make the highest quality possible reproductions that could be afforded by visitors to Yosemite National Park and Best Studios. The posters were always well done, also.

https://www.alanrossphotography.com/ansel-adams/yosemite-special-edition-photographs/

As far as the original question -- why would they prefer one over the other? I would assume they would use the tools and process that brings out what they are trying to express with the image they are working with.

RE "Special Edition": Ansel turned his negatives over to the Ansel Adams Trust at General Graphic Services for legal trust services, negative archive, and printing, GGS did that for a handful of other famous photographers. GGS offered two levels of Ansel print...one from his original negatives, another from duplicate negatives (perhaps only 8X10). Gossip of the time: some of the techs printed and sold unauthorized Ansels for cash on the side. None of that was digital.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Ansel would certainly have preferred Photoshop over the darkroom (and over Lightroom, the amateur-oriented version of PS), given his enthusiasm for scanning. He was highly tech-oriented. If you compare his prints from same negative, made at different times of his life you'll see how much better the digitally originated reproductions in books are than his original prints often were. Ansel did love shortcuts, as you can see in his Polaroids as well as in the fact that he drove to many of his photographic sites, rather than using a pack animal. As well, many of Ansel's prints were made by people he or his trust employed.

I am glad you converse directly with Ansel on a daily basis. He did use Polaroid for testing and color film. He expressed in his books on his color work that he did not like that color was less tolerant of manipulation and could "go out" easily. Therefore he still preferred black & white. Since you talk to him on a regular basis, please capture your conversations on your smart phone and post them here. We look forward to those conversations.

 

[Bill Burk]

Sirius, he told me to say hi!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

He probably would have like the idea he could print out oodles of copies and sell them all and make more money.

 

[MattKing]

Sirius, he told me to say hi!

Who would have "visualized" it?

 

[cliveh]

Who would have "visualized" it?

The Photoshop technician.

 

[Sirius Glass]

He probably would have like the idea he could print out oodles of copies and sell them all and make more money.

Of course he was a "money grubber" which is why he instituted low cost prints of his work at his Yosemite studio which still prints low cost copies of his work I have several myself. Alan. you just got caught with your pants down!