Ansco Shur Shot, uneven focus..!

jay moussy · Jul 29, 2021

I took an Ansco Shur Shot and Fomapan 200 to an outdoor family restaurant Saturday, and was actually bragging about the simplicity of operation.
Well, I got punished for my foolish behavior: after developing, I saw that I got uneven focus, center of neg is in focus, but it drifts out of focus towards the edges.
The camera construction shows that film tension between rollers rely entirely on pull from take-up spool, and there is no back pressure plate.

While handling the film I did notice a certain amount of thin-ness to it.

- anybody experience such uneven focus with a box camera?
- did I goof something, somehow?
- film at fault?
- fault within lens?

This is the first time I am using a straight 120 film with the camera, I actually have two and never thought I would have to do any testing!

Puzzling.

EDIT: I wonder if I need a bit of foam at the bottom of the spool wells to maintain a bit of tension on the spooling film? CORRECTION: nope there are weak metal blades pressing on spools already, a bit weak, perhaps.

gone · Jul 29, 2021

I'm blaming the Foma 200 even if it's surely not that, just because so many people seem to hate it. I've only shot one roll so far, and that one roll is very different than their 100/400 films.

After looking at flickr shots from cameras like yours, their shots are all over the place. Out of focus, exposure issues, etc. With only 1 shutter speed, the exposure issues are going to happen, but some of the flickr shots are also in focus and look just fine. I'm not sure what accounts for the vast differences. Make sure your lens is not loose, cocked, clean inside, all that.

I've used box cameras and they're capable of semi-sharp shots. The fake TLR's w/ the 2 or 3 speed shutters on the other hand are very capable performers. My old Argoflex Model E, a real, but low end TLR, made great photos (see below).

jay moussy · Jul 29, 2021

First order of business is to clean the lens. Information I see says it is only retained by a springy ring, which I see, but I do not know if ring would go back in without protesting, the way these things are..!

Nevermind, I popped the front panel... to find a good luck horseshoe charm loose near the shutter, most likely a child's treasured possession! So, luck is on my side now.

Donald Qualls · Jul 30, 2021

The meniscus lenses in most box cameras, even when they haven't been reversed by a well-meaning "artist", have some field curvature -- which causes exactly what you describe: images that are fairly sharp in the center, but less and less so toward the corners (coma, spherical aberration, and chromatic aberration all contribute to this as well). For a camera originally intended to make contact prints from the relatively huge negatives, this wasn't a major drawback compared to being able to sell the camera for a couple bucks.

Unfortunately, all you can really do is make sure the lens is clean, correctly oriented (concave side toward the aperture stop, whether that's in front of the lens or behind), and whatever features the camera has to flatten the film (usually just a pair of rollers, the back of the box acting as a sort of pressure plate, and tension on the film) is operating as designed -- and accept that this is a camera that automatically emphasizes a centered subject.

removed account4 · Jul 30, 2021

jay moussy said:
I took an Ansco Shur Shot and Fomapan 200 to an outdoor family restaurant Saturday, and was actually bragging about the simplicity of operation.
Well, I got punished for my foolish behavior: after developing, I saw that I got uneven focus, center of neg is in focus, but it drifts out of focus towards the edges.
The camera construction shows that film tension between rollers rely entirely on pull from take-up spool, and there is no back pressure plate.

While handling the film I did notice a certain amount of thin-ness to it.

- anybody experience such uneven focus with a box camera?
- did I goof something, somehow?
- film at fault?
- fault within lens?

This is the first time I am using a straight 120 film with the camera, I actually have two and never thought I would have to do any testing!

Puzzling.

EDIT: I wonder if I need a bit of foam at the bottom of the spool wells to maintain a bit of tension on the spooling film? CORRECTION: nope there are weak metal blades pressing on spools already, a bit weak, perhaps.

hi jay
there are a few pulls on that camera .. one has a smaller f-stop
one has a yellow filter and one is for time exposures. have you used the small aperture yet?
often times these box cameras are optimized for subjects that are more than10 feet away
if you put a sheet of waxed paper in the camera as a faux ground glass you can inspect the projected image
and see where the sweet spot on your camera might be ... I know for pretty much all my box cameras its about 10 feet..
good luck !
John

Dali · Jul 30, 2021

Hello Jay,

Is the out of focus / poor sharpness area evenly distributed around the center of the picturee? If not, it would mean a misaligned lens. Don't laugh, this kind of things happen!

jay moussy · Jul 30, 2021

@jnantz this is the simplest of Shur Shots, unlike yours, no such niceties as aperture or filter, or B setting. The shutter platen is nailed on, a marvel of economy from the guys in Binghamton!

What I got:

(shot was hurried, a bit blurry, my fault)

Now, in retrospect, when first spooling the film, I experienced a little odd feel, and dismissed it on account of the camera being of cardboard.

Actually I can produce a B setting on the camera by removing the front of camera and manually stop the round metal mask mid-swing. I did that to clean the lens last night, and will do again to get the wax paper sighting.

removed account4 · Jul 30, 2021

Jay
Maybe someone FLIPPED your lens .. or they removed the aperture choke
sometimes these lenses are wollaston meniscus lenses so the flat part is out, and there
is basically a thin washer that chokes the lens from f4 to something like f10 or f9
it was the rage to flip the lenses in box cameras like the Hawkeye a few years ago,
maybe the person who left the good luck charm in the camera did the flipping
good luck
John

jay moussy · Jul 30, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
(concave side toward the aperture stop, whether that's in front of the lens or behind),

Well @jnantz and @Donald Qualls, the concave part of the lens faces the film side, so I have a flipped-lens box camera?

One of the other frames, a person sitting at dining table, is very flipped lens style, to the point of being dramatically interesting:

Update: I compared this lens with the other, same Shur Shot model, so lens is flipped.

What to do now, set back to normal?

Donald Qualls · Aug 2, 2021

jay moussy said:
What to do now, set back to normal?

If you prefer "moderately sharp all over" that's what I'd do. Doesn't take long to do. It might not even have been intentional; if you don't know which way it's supposed to go, you've got 50% chance of getting it wrong after having it out for cleaning.

jay moussy · Aug 2, 2021

As is,I should figure out how close of a close up I can get, for portraiture and such, preview with ground glass equivalent. Maybe even add a x3 diopter and see what happens?

Ansco Shur Shot, uneven focus..!

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