ANSCO 130

mikewhi · Nov 10, 2004

I got the formula off APUG from an earlier post. I went thru all my bulk chemicals last night and pleasantly found that I have all the ingredients! I'm especially happy about the glycin, since it's fairly expensive stuff. I have a ton of the developing agents. As for the glycin, if it were cocaine, I would be going away for a long long time.

Some of the chemicals are old - like from 1995-1996. Any problems with that?
I want to try it with AZO and print some recently developed degatives - like the rock in the technical gallery. If I use AZO Gr 3, how should I dilute the stock solution? How long should I develop for - it's the new AZO. I have both the new and old Gr 2.

I'll let you know. If printing goes well, I'll post a scan of the print this weekend.

-Mike

Francesco · Nov 10, 2004

About a minute should be fine. I should add that I have tried Ansco 130 with AZO (both G2 and G3, old and new) and it does not produce the goods as far as tonality is concerned. It is good but there are better developers (amidol is one, neutol wa split toned with catechol is another).

mikewhi · Nov 11, 2004

I have the Nuetol on hand, but don't know whay you mean by split toned with catechol. Can you elaborate?

Thanks.

-Mike

Robert Hall · Nov 11, 2004

Some say that Glycin has only about a 6 month shelf life. Fresh, it's just off white. I've had some for over a year and still works fine.

If you mix the ansco 130, and sorry if these instrucions are with the formula, mix a pinch of sulfite in first, then dissolve all the Metol, wait till it's all dissolved. then the HQ until it's all gone, then the bromide, then the rest of the sulphite. Then mix the Glycin in. It will go into solution much easier at this point. It tends to clump a little, I wear nyplex gloves and crush the little clumps of glycin to help it mix better. Once that is dissolved, I mixt the sodium carbonate. Make sure all items are fully mixed before continuing.

As to the strictness of the order, Metol dissolves best with just a little Sulfite and Glycin is almost insoluble in water, but with Sodium sulfite, it dissolves much better.

The higher the dilution of the developer in working solution, the warmer my images. 1+6 gives a very rich brown and 1+9 gives me almost chocolate brown on Forte.

I hope I haven't rambled too much, best of luck.

Robert

Silverpixels5 · Nov 11, 2004

I've used the 1:2 and 1:3 dilution with very good results. Both of these working solutions will last for a very long time. I've printed with them after they are 6 months old...with use...and the only thing that changed was the warmness of the image. Whites were still white and blacks were still black. I can't comment on how it compares to amidol b/c I still havn't tried it, but I know Sandy King did a test not too long ago between MS Amidol and Ansco 130 and was able to get identical curves. The only thing is that you can control contrast via a waterbath with amidol. Not sure that can be done with Ansco 130.

mikewhi · Nov 17, 2004

OK, I mixed my first batch of ANSCO 130 this evening using the old stock of chemicals I have on hand. The stock came out dark ice tea color, or the color of coffee those heathens in the mid-west brew, not the stout proper brew that we have perfected here in Seattle.

I will be printing with it soon, starting out at 1:3 (recommended by folks here) and AZO Gr2 and Gr3. I'll try some other papers, too, like the JandC Museum paper.

I noticed that at least one of the ingredients called for a fraction of a gram (like 2.2gr or 5.5gr). My scales only measure in 1 gram increments. How important is it that I get that .2 or .5 amount correct (Metol called for 2.2gr I believe)? I estimated but I'm sure I was off .2 or .4 gr.

Do I need a scale that measures fractions of a gram? If so, can someone recommend one? Do you know how I would calibrate it or verify it's accuracy if I bought it used?

Thanks.

-Mike

sanking · Nov 17, 2004

mikewhi said:
OK, I mixed my first batch of ANSCO 130 this evening using the old stock of chemicals I have on hand. The stock came out dark ice tea color, or the color of coffee those heathens in the mid-west brew, not the stout proper brew that we have perfected here in Seattle.

I will be printing with it soon, starting out at 1:3 (recommended by folks here) and AZO Gr2 and Gr3. I'll try some other papers, too, like the JandC Museum paper.

I noticed that at least one of the ingredients called for a fraction of a gram (like 2.2gr or 5.5gr). My scales only measure in 1 gram increments. How important is it that I get that .2 or .5 amount correct (Metol called for 2.2gr I believe)? I estimated but I'm sure I was off .2 or .4 gr.

Do I need a scale that measures fractions of a gram? If so, can someone recommend one? Do you know how I would calibrate it or verify it's accuracy if I bought it used?

Thanks.

-Mike

Mike,

Hopefully your solution of Ansco 130 will work well for you. I would not be concerned about the small measurement differences, but the color of the solution is of some concern. My current Ansco 130 solution was mixed with fresh glycin and is very clear, perhaps with a hint of yellow. A previous solution that I mixed with old glycin was the color of dark coffee, and gave unacceptable results.

Of all of the commonly used reducers glycin appears to have the shortest shelf life of any. Compare to Amidol, for example, which appears to have an almost indefinite shelf life. Michael Smith's current stock of Amidol, for exmaple, is almost 100 years old according to one of his messages on the AZO forum. In my experience a number of other reducers, including pyrocatechin, pyrogallol, and phenidone also have very long shelf lives.

Sandy

Robert Hall · Nov 17, 2004

I wouldnt worry too much about .2 grams, but if you do you can put 22grams in 100 ml of distilled water and use 10ml of it. (I would just add 2 grams and be done with it.)

Just make sure it's disloved before moving on.

If you want a nice scale see:

http://www.scale.bz/Comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2547

I've used this one for a long time. Works great.

To verify your scale, weight something you already know the weight of, such as a 500gm counter balance.

mikewhi · Nov 17, 2004

Robert Hall said:
I wouldnt worry too much about .2 grams, but if you do you can put 22grams in 100 ml of distilled water and use 10ml of it. (I would just add 2 grams and be done with it.)

Just make sure it's disloved before moving on.

If you want a nice scale see:

http://www.scale.bz/Comersus/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=2547

I've used this one for a long time. Works great.

To verify your scale, weight something you already know the weight of, such as a 500gm counter balance.

Thanks. I got this on on eBay for a great price:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3851982308&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT

It's new, drop shipped from the factory.

-Mike

mikewhi · Nov 17, 2004

sanking said:
Mike,

Hopefully your solution of Ansco 130 will work well for you. I would not be concerned about the small measurement differences, but the color of the solution is of some concern. My current Ansco 130 solution was mixed with fresh glycin and is very clear, perhaps with a hint of yellow. A previous solution that I mixed with old glycin was the color of dark coffee, and gave unacceptable results.

Of all of the commonly used reducers glycin appears to have the shortest shelf life of any. Compare to Amidol, for example, which appears to have an almost indefinite shelf life. Michael Smith's current stock of Amidol, for exmaple, is almost 100 years old according to one of his messages on the AZO forum. In my experience a number of other reducers, including pyrocatechin, pyrogallol, and phenidone also have very long shelf lives.

Sandy

Oh well, I'll give it a try and see. I'll try some Ilford Galerie first. The glycin was about 10 years old. I will buy some new and try it with the older developing agents and other chemicals and see how it turns out. Too bad, the glycin is pretty expensive.

Where do you get yours?

-Mike

mikewhi · Nov 17, 2004

I ordered fresh glycin from PF and I also ordered their ANSCO 130 kit. I'll mix both and comapre with what I come up with on my own.

Thanks for the help.

-Mike

Mark Layne · Nov 17, 2004

The "highlight glow" attributed to this developer is glycin stain and is in proportion to its state of deterioration. I see no point in this developer- you can get a nicer "glow" with green tea. Since PF won't ship chemicals to Canada fresh glycin is a difficulty

Mark

ann · Nov 17, 2004

There is a group in Canada that has an extensive list of avaible darkroom chemicals; including fresh glycin
. They were J.D. Photo Chemicals but i believe Johnny has now retired with Claire Vrana taking over the business. Their prices and service were always very good and I have been buying from John for several years and plan on giving the new group a chance to continue providing me with cheaper chemcials and fine service.
try contact jdphotochem.com.

chrisg · Nov 19, 2004

>I see no point in this developer- you can get a nicer "glow" with green tea.

I've heard quite a few people mention using tea to tone prints. I'd expect tea would be pretty acidic and could adversely affect print lifetime. Any truth to that?

mikewhi · Nov 20, 2004

sanking said:
Mike,

Hopefully your solution of Ansco 130 will work well for you. I would not be concerned about the small measurement differences, but the color of the solution is of some concern. My current Ansco 130 solution was mixed with fresh glycin and is very clear, perhaps with a hint of yellow. A previous solution that I mixed with old glycin was the color of dark coffee, and gave unacceptable results.
Sandy

I just received a shipment of the Formulary 130 developer whih is th exact same formula posted here and that I mixed the other night. When I mixed this, it came out exactly as you described, Sandy. Very clear with a tinge of yellow. I suspect it will produce the best results.

Thanks for the info.

-Mike

ann · Nov 21, 2004

Chris,
altho, tea is more stain than tone it gets mixed reviews both with regard to color as well as archival properties. One school of thought is that it may be more stable because of the tannic acid.

As i am not a chemical expert i can't really verify that position.

We have tried using it in our toning class and no one really like the results.

Depending on the type of tea certainly determines the final "tone". I.E. Strawberry tea gives a more rosie looking color than ordinary black.

PhotoJim · May 10, 2006

Old thread... but in case people dig it up from the archive:

I live in Canada and Photographer's Formulary happily sends me glycin. They will not ship certain chemicals (e.g. hydroquinone) but I get that from jdphotochem instead.

clay · May 10, 2006

The 'glow' is not stain. I mix it up with fresh glycin and my paper white stays paper white. What it does do is give a nice long toe to a lot of printing papers without crunching your shadow separation into oblivion.

It lasts a long time in the tray and in the jug. I have done sensitometric comparisons between this developer and MS Amidol, and it is darn close. Getting glycin is surely a pain in the butt, however it is one pain in the butt I think it is well worth enduring.

my two cents

Mark Layne said:
The "highlight glow" attributed to this developer is glycin stain and is in proportion to its state of deterioration. I see no point in this developer- you can get a nicer "glow" with green tea. Since PF won't ship chemicals to Canada fresh glycin is a difficulty

Mark

wfwhitaker · May 10, 2006

Microsoft makes Amidol??

clay · May 10, 2006

Yep, Will, they sure do. Of course, the first version you get is sort of buggy and only just sort of works, but by the time you take your third delivery, it works like a charm.

juan · May 11, 2006

I have glycin that is now two years old. I've kept it in my freezer inside the packaging from PF (bottle and the light-proof bag) all inside a freezer bag. The glycin is still the slightly off white color.

I know it still works because I recently tested a film developer made solely of glycin and TEA - worked just fine (although very slow and too expensive.)

It would appear that freezing allows one to keep glycin much longer.
juan

Lachlan Young · May 11, 2006

juan said:
I know it still works because I recently tested a film developer made solely of glycin and TEA - worked just fine (although very slow and too expensive.)

What was the formula? I believe someone has tried something similar but using some pyrogallol as well - development times for TMY were about 16 minutes IIRC.

hope this helps,

Lachlan

MMfoto · May 11, 2006

Anyone have any tips on manipulating image color with Ansco 130? I adore this developer with Bergger VCCB but find it slightly greenish compared to my standard Zonal Pro HQ Warmtone.

MMfoto · May 11, 2006

mikewhi said:
I just received a shipment of the Formulary 130 developer whih is th exact same formula posted here.....

How do you know it's the same formula?

removed account4 · May 11, 2006

MMfoto said:
How do you know it's the same formula?

formulary 130 is the same as ansco 130 same formula .. just their name.

ANSCO 130

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