Ansco 130 w/phenidone. Am I missing out?

[wildbill]

I just started mixing my own ansco 130 and after reading about people's reactions to metol, decided to substitute phenidone (1/10 the amount of metol required). I've made several prints (high contrast subjects) and the results are pretty good. What I couldn't find in my research was what the differences are between a metol based version and one with phenidone. I wear gloves and I'm not sure how my skin would react to metol.

Would the original formula with metol produce better results?

I've also read that phenidone needs benzo when substituting for metol. If so, how much?

 

[wildbill]

c'mon

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

It can take a long time to develop a sensitivity to metol. I think the way to figure it out is to do a series of test prints with each version of 130, and compare.

 

[Ian Grant]

If an MQ formula needs 4g KBr then cut that to 2g in a PQ variant and add 20ml of 1% Benzotriazole solutio.

5 g Metol is substituded by 0.3g Phenidone, you can do your own maths

Ian

 

[ChuckP]

I don't have a good answer but in case you didn't know the Formulary sells BW-65:
http://stores.photoformulary.com/-strse-123/BW-dsh-65-Liquid-Paper-Developer/Detail.bok

You could try that for a test. I've used it in the past and would say it was softer working compared to Dectol. Same with the phenidone based Bromophen. Blacks seem more open but it's probably just a contrast matching problem testing vs Dectol.

 

[eclarke]

Vinny, use 15cc 1% benzotriazole/ liter, replacing the bromide..With Ilford WT paper, it' great..Evan Clarke

P.S. up the Carbonate to 80 g ANHYDROUS..marvelous effect on the blacks..

 

[Rudeofus]

Just out of curiosity: how far can you up the carbonate before things turn ugly? By accident I once added a lot of carbonate and the Ansco 130 turned completely black in less than 4 hours. It still worked but started staining my prints before I tossed it out.

 

[artonpaper]

One thing here, I read somewhere that metol sensitivity and the subsequent skin and respiratory reactions has lessened in recent times due to metol being more refined than it used to be. Evidently there were impurities in the metol that were the culprit in most allergic reactions. I'm I can't site the source, I seemed to have lost it. This may or may not be accurate.

 

[nworth]

Variation (long life):
Split stock solution for very long life (Muir)
Solution A
Sodium sulfite (anh) 40 g
Sodium bisulfate 10 g
Hydroquinone 11 g
Phenidone 250 mg
Glycin 11 g
WTM 1 l
Solution B
Sodium carbonate (mono) 80 g
WTM 1 l
Dilute 1;1:1 for use. Add potassium bromide or benzotriazole as needed.
(Ref: Photo Techniques, Sep/Oct 1996, pg 55)

Variation (PC130):
Water (52C) 750 ml
Sodium sulfite (anh) 50 g
Ascorbic acid 18 g
Sodium carbonate (mono) 78 g
Phenidone 500 mg
Glycin 11 g
Potassium bromide 5.5 g
Water to make 1 l
pH (measured) = 10.1
This looks a lot different than Ansco 130, but it is really very close to the original formula. Ascorbic acid replaces hydroquinone in about an equi-molar proportion, and phenidone replaces metol. Phenidone is not quite as superadditive with ascorbic acid or glycin as it is with hydroquinone, and the amount was adjusted accordingly.
Dilute 1 + 1 for use. Develop for two and one half minutes.
Based on emergence times, the PC130 appears to be considerably more active than Ansco 130, but it gives slightly slower paper speeds. The difference is about a third of a stop for the Forma paper, nearly a quarter stop for the Ilford, and almost none for the Kodak.
Ref: APUG

Note that PC-130 does not have any chelating agents to prevent sudden death. Addition of appropriate amounts of succinic acid and triethanolamine may be helpful.

 

[wildbill]

what's MQ? original formula?
btw, I'm not looking for a new formula, just some answers regarding what I'm using. After reading your replies, I'm just confused.

 

[Ian Grant]

MQ is Metol & Hyroquinone. PQ is Phenidone & Hyroquinone. Agfa Ansco/GAF 130 is Metol, Hydroquinone and Glycin though.

Ian

 

[eclarke]

Vinny, try it this way once. This has been my standard for about 7 years now. Use anhydrous carbonate or increase the mono to make it up...

130*paper*developer**makes*1L*stock
*
750*cc*water*@125*deg.
2.2*grams*Metol
50*grams*Sodium*Sulfite
11*grams*Hydroquinone
80*grams*Sodium*Carbonate*(anhydrous)
11*grams*Glycin
15*cc*1%*Benzotriazole*solution
Water*to*make*1L.
*
*
Mix*in*order*shown.*Add*a*pinch*of*Sodium*Sulfite*to*the*water*before*adding*Metol.
*
I*dilute*1+3…..

I*like*to*run*the*tray*at*73*degrees