+1Where you place shadows varies in different teachings.
Early (Minor White) books had you place shadows at Zone II while most use Zone III.
Bruce Barnbaum has his own idea which will lead you to greater exposure than you need.
He doesn’t mention the rated speed of film. Zone System tests typically arrive at between 2/3 stop to a full stop less speed than manufacturers rated speed (which does the same thing as Bruce recommends).
I recommend checking your own ideas against a sensible benchmark. You don’t want the cumulative effect of your adjustments to take the actual exposure too far from what you might get from other metering techniques.
I don't mean to be pedantic but just saying place "shadows" on Zone II or III or whatever is a bit meaningless, shadows come in many different varieties. It would be more helpful to define a shadow as the darkest part of a scene where you want to preserve full detail. A shadow in a snowy scene is very different to a shadow in a dark forest.
It can work with sheet film because you can adjust development. It’s subtle in the video, because he almost mentions it in passing, but when you overexpose (which he stipulates this is doing) then you have to decrease development to compensate. Can’t one do this with roll film? Sure, but you have to do the whole roll the same. Like Chris, I would not recommend it.Barnbaum's method overexposes the film one stop. It will give more shadow detail, but also increases graininess and can make highlights hard to print in high contrast scenes. If you're doing this with large format film it probably works ok; I would not recommend it for 120 or (especially) 35mm.
Oh and you will always print to make the picture look good no matter what the exposure was.
I don't know of two scenes that are the same let alone shadows to be the same in all scenes. Exposing is always case by case, especially in Zone System. I find no universality for shadow placement yet there are not too many choices either. Then highlights sometimes are far more critical.A shadow area in any scene is the same....as long as it is a dark area where the details could be lost or seen depending on settings one makes. I would want the image to show whatever detail there is...no more or less. (just my opinion)
I tend to go toward zone 111
Advising to place shadows here or there on every shot is not really sound, but depending on who says it ... may sound good.
Advising to place shadows here or there on every shot is not really sound, but depending on who says it ... may sound good.
Perhaps you need to read what I said again.D'oh!Face slap! Stupid me! I have been doing exactly that for several decades with great results! Now I will have to stop doing that just because Witold said I am wrong! Woe is me! I am going sit in the corner!
Almost done with the darkroom and that means it is time to start shooting again. I couldn't justify giving The Darkroom all my money when I had almost 90% of what I needed for a darkroom.
(snip
Bruce Barnbaum in a video says to put the shadows you want in Zone 4 while exposing and printing at Zone 3. Anyone tried this out?
A number of years ago (at an "International meeting of the Biological Photographic Association (now (Biocomm.org, Dr Martin Scott indicated that (for Kodachrome) the "place the highights" (ie 'white with texture) on Zone VIII+1/3, since Kodachrome processing had the 'tightest' development methods of any film.
I have been 'doing that (when using all my LF film exposures ever since (expose for the Highlights (with texture)
on "Zone Vlll+1/3 of a stop and giving my film "normal' development and 'letting the shadows "Fall where they may) My reasoning is that the 'lighter' area on a B/W print are the 'areas to which the viewing eye is first 'drawn'... much before 'information' in the shadows.
Now...Before you all try and 'shout me down' might I suggest you 'give it a try. I now always carry around a small 'swatch' of clean white towelling put it in the 'SAME light condition.. read the 'results that my spot meter indicates,
which is very close( less than1/3 of a stop to what I get using my incident light meter reading
Don't forget to allow "Allow for any bellows extension" and "GO FOR IT!!!
Ken
'
Almost done with the darkroom and that means it is time to start shooting again. I couldn't justify giving The Darkroom all my money when I had almost 90% of what I needed for a darkroom.
(snip)
Bruce Barnbaum in a video says to put the shadows you want in Zone 4 while exposing and printing at Zone 3. Anyone tried this out?
There was a book many years ago that recommended this approach & it went against everything I learned UNTILA number of years ago I was at an "International" meeting of Biological/Biomedical Photographers where DR Martin Scott indicated that with Kodachrome (which had the "tightest' of all processing requirements) the BEST way was to read/meter a 'white with texture' and 'place that value in "Zone VIII+1/3' which is usually within 'about 1/3 of a stop of an incident meter reading.
Now... before y'all try and 'shut me down' might I suggest that you 'give it a try' before telling me I'm an idiot and I don't know what I'm talking about... but I've used it for years and I'm more that just 'satisfied' with the results.
Ken
A number of years ago I was at an "International" meeting of Biological/Biomedical Photographers where DR Martin Scott indicated that with Kodachrome (which had the "tightest' of all processing requirements) the BEST way was to read/meter a 'white with texture' and 'place that value in "Zone VIII+1/3' which is usually within 'about 1/3 of a stop of an incident meter reading.
I now 'use that method for ALL my LF B&W films.. my reasoning is that the hominid eye is first 'drawn to the 'lighter' areas for 'information' in that area before seeking fine details in the 'shadows'.
Now... before y'all try and 'shut me down' might I suggest that you 'give it a try' before telling me I'm an idiot and I don't know what I'm talking about... but I've used it for years and I'm more that just 'satisfied' with the results.
Ken
There was a book many years ago that recommended this approach & it went against everything I learned UNTIL
I realized the author was referring to slide film and you didn't want to burn the highlights out.
Where you place shadows varies in different teachings.
Early (Minor White) books had you place shadows at Zone II while most use Zone III.
Bruce Barnbaum has his own idea which will lead you to greater exposure than you need.
He doesn’t mention the rated speed of film. Zone System tests typically arrive at between 2/3 stop to a full stop less speed than manufacturers rated speed (which does the same thing as Bruce recommends).
I recommend checking your own ideas against a sensible benchmark. You don’t want the cumulative effect of your adjustments to take the actual exposure too far from what you might get from other metering techniques.
Oh and you will always print to make the picture look good no matter what the exposure was.
Barnbaum's method overexposes the film one stop. It will give more shadow detail, but also increases graininess and can make highlights hard to print in high contrast scenes. If you're doing this with large format film it probably works ok; I would not recommend it for 120 or (especially) 35mm.
It can work with sheet film because you can adjust development. It’s subtle in the video, because he almost mentions it in passing, but when you overexpose (which he stipulates this is doing) then you have to decrease development to compensate. Can’t one do this with roll film? Sure, but you have to do the whole roll the same. Like Chris, I would not recommend it.
Metering, exposing, and developing is all part of an integrated system that each photographer must learn and devise on their own. Start with the simple basics. Learn to use the meter, whatever kind it is. But beware of any “method” where the practitioner is stating or hinting that they have found the secret and everyone else has been doing it wrong for all of history. Just saying ...
The more generalized message to take from Mr. Barnbaum is that there are advantages to giving generous exposure to a negative.
You should understand though that there are disadvantages as well - primarily relating to grain and highlight rendition (with some films).
Mr. Barnbaum is a very good printer - particularly with respect to retrieving detail from those highlights that he has intentionally over-exposed on his negatives.
I am not a devotee of Mr. Barnbaum's approach, but I have friends who are. They are more likely to use LF, and I never do.
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