Another reason I’m moving to strictly Ilford.

AgX said:

I daily read newspapers, listen to educational radio for hours each day. Never ever heard of Month of Gay Pride.

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And my Dad would read the NYPost and listen to Limbaugh each and every day. How does being an active radio listener/reader correlate to holding progressive views of society?

MatthewDunn said:

This thread is just showing (for the 10000000000th time) that old white men don't really know or recognize (let alone) understand the world around them - your ignorance has nothing to do with whether the flag is an "internet fad" or not.

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I do not see that german public radio, nespapers, all my gay/lesbian frinds (nearly all artists of most various ages) are "white old men".

Nor do I see that Instagram is society.

AgX said:

...

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Honestly, this is just "I have a black friend so I can't be racist" just REALLY badly re-packaged.

You still do not get my point!
I am not against anybody, but against expecting a "canon" of terms and icons being well known, morever blaming people not knowing.

MatthewDunn said:

And my Dad would read the NYPost and listen to Limbaugh each and every day. How does being an active radio listener/reader correlate to holding progressive views of society?

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I never said anything about attitudes/being progressive or not. It is about knowing terms or not.

AgX said:

I am not against anybody, but against expecting a "canon" of terms and icons being well known, morever blaming people not knowing.

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The problem is not that you don't know the symbols, terms, and icons, but that you claim, since you don't know them, that they're not well known in general. Even if it's a fad (which I'm not saying it is), a fad is only a fad because it gains enough popular momentum that almost everyone knows about it. That you're not part of that group doesn't imply that group doesn't exist.

Well, there is logic in your argument. But how would you know that these terms are well known? That would necessitate a representative inquiry. But I gave hints that they are not well known (or used differently.)

AgX said:

Well, there is logic in your argument. But how would you know that these terms are well known? That would necessitate a representative inquiry. But I gave hints that they are not well known (or used differently.)

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And I provided a link to a Wikipedia article stating that the flag first flew in the 1970s. So we are weighing "your" personal experience and that of your circle with a publicly editable Wikipedia article. I am personally ok with the evidence I have offered and will stand down at this point.

Here is the relevant part:

"The original gay pride flag flew at the San Francisco Gay Freedom Day Parade celebration on June 25, 1978. Prior to that event, the Pink triangle had been used as a symbol for the LGBT community, despite representing a dark chapter in the history of same-sex rights. (Nazis during World War II used the pink triangle to identify and stigmatize homosexuals, similar to the way the Star of David was used to mark Jews.) Rather than relying on a Nazi tool of oppression, the community sought a new inspiring symbol. A close friend of Baker's, Artie Bressan, pressed him to create a new symbol at "the dawn of a new gay consciousness and freedom".

With the above in mind, you might re-consider whether or not referring to the flag as "fad" might be construed as offensive to some, which is the point I was trying to make. It seems like the use of the flag is rooted in painful histoy(ies).

Wikipedia referring to that flag, does not mean that it is used or known all over the world. Over here it is even used in a different meaning.

You are looking at things from a US perspective, as most english Wikipedia articles are written from this perspective too, as most Photrio is.

I tried, folks. I think you will agree I legitimately tried. Out.

MatthewDunn said:

I tried, folks. I think you will agree I legitimately tried. Out.

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Ditto.

Trying in vain by lack of valid arguments.

Actually, trying in vain against a lack of valid argument.

I wonder if companies do really care or that it is just peer presure to also make a post like this, being afraid that they loose money and people saying it's a homophobic company.
I don't think this needs like a special month, I respect anyone everytime. And more respect you need to gain for me, I don't respect someone more because they have a certain "property".

Do companies care at all?
If they make a move or statement alongside mainstream expected attitude one always is trickled to say they do it out of opportunism. Only when they act/utter against such one might think of caring for an issue. But I find it hard to remember of such a case opposition.

As a fairly straight, cis-gendered man sliding into middle age.....literally *everyone* I know is aware of what the rainbow flag means. Most are aware of pride month. It's a big thing normally in the UK with a huge event in London, big events in other cities and smaller ones across the country. I do have a lot of friends who are LGBTQIA+ (most self identify as "queer", which is being reclaimed as a term) but even my mother who is quite disgustingly homophobic knows it's pride month and knows what the rainbow means. The rainbow is also a common sight above gay/queer pubs, night clubs and so on. The town I live in with a population of 200,000 has at least two gay pubs and a gay bar/night club plus a gay sauna. They all fly the rainbow flag 365 days a year. Other businesses which are not necessarily aimed at LGBT+ customers but are owned by people who are....sometimes have the flag all year round as a show of solidarity.

But that might not be universal across the world. I've visited places like Arkansas....I know closeted people there who can only dream of somewhere where they can be open about who they are. Years ago my then teenage nieces (who are both bi) came over to the UK and we took them to Brighton which they pronounced "the gayest city they've ever visited" and it seems to have inspired them both to be more open in Arkansas and Oklahoma where they now live. The flag and the reminder that it's OK to be different *are* important.

In fact what Ilford is doing is great in my book....but there is now a backlash against businesses jumping on a bandwagon for a few days a year and not doing anything practical year round.

It’s called appropriation, token gestures and virtue signaling* (*you know the term crypto nazis suddenly learned a few years ago, went bonkers over finally having a nice sounding word to use, without beginning to understand it, thereby making everyone else afraid to use it.).

Frankly I’m a bit disappointed in Ilford for doing crap like that.
And it would seem, if anything, a reason not to buy their product.

The rest of the nonsense in this thread really makes very little sense.
Perhaps it fits under the terms I mentioned at the top of the post?

If they really wanted to say or do something, they could for example post bios of gay people working at Ilford, donate money to organizations working for gay rights and ask others to do the same or post gay photographers images etc.
Have they ever done that on this, or any occasion?
Not to my knowledge.

It would still be using and riding the cause, but be less cloying and hollow.

AgX said:

Do companies care at all?
If they make a move or statement alongside mainstream expected attitude one always is trickled to say they do it out of opportunism. Only when they act/utter against such one might think of caring for an issue. But I find it hard to remember of such a case opposition.

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#

There was a lot of backlash against Marks & Spencer offering a pride sandwich last year. As it turns out, they are trailblazers regarding supporting their LGBTQIA+ employees but they don't shout about it.

I happen to know that Tesco, often seen as the dreaded "big business" are similarly way ahead of the curve in supporting diversity - but they don't trumpet it So the moral of this story is that you don't always know if these big employers are doing good year round. No doubt if Tesco publicised half of what it's doing in diversity training some do-gooder would moan that they are virtue signalling.

Companies don't care. Individuals care. Companies have policies that are prudent, protective, and possibly humanitarian - but those are the result of the individuals that bring them about. Individuals move on from companies, get replaced by other individuals, and policies get redirected. A company has no human character.

MatthewDunn said:

I tried, folks. I think you will agree I legitimately tried. Out.

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Your efforts didn’t go unnoticed or appreciated.


It wasn’t my intent to start an argument, but just to say that I appreciated Ilford and it’s post. I made the decision to move to strictly Ilford products based on a multitude of reasons that don’t include their acknowledgments of Pride month, this was just a nice reinforcement.

Agulliver said:

cis-gendered

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Oh no... another term to learn. Never heard of that word before. Don’t explain, though... I’ll as Wikipedia.

BrianShaw said:

Oh no... another term to learn. Never heard of that word before. Don’t explain, though... I’ll as Wikipedia.

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It’s not only you. I’ve been gay since 1980 and I still don’t understand all the terms that are used today. Once you get past the LGB, I’m lost.

michael_r said:

I support RGB

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BrianShaw said:

View attachment 276440

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Cute, Young, Manly, Kinky?

Well hey Brian... come sit by me.