• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

Another KA Gerbershagen interview 11 Apr 14 Rochester Business Joirnal

RattyMouse

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Oct 18, 2011
Messages
6,045
Location
Ann Arbor, Mi
Format
Multi Format

The film market disappeared a long time ago. All that's left to fall is motion pictures. The writing is on the wall for that. There are no surprises left. So either Kodak Alaris tries like hell to keep film alive in this new world of niche use, or they fold up that shop and become a boring "Kiosk" company as well as a scanner/business imaging company.

I dont care about their other businesses. If KA doesnt want to sell film then fine.

As far as I'm concerned, their total and complete silence about their film line speaks louder than any words can. They want out of film.
 

removed account4

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
29,832
Format
Hybrid
AgX stated in the other thread
that analog / photo film is a tiny percent
of their whole portfolio. i don't think it was a slight against the
analog community at all. ( all 200 of them/us :munch: )

yes, it would have been nice to mention "film" in an interview
but they have bigger fish to fry ...
it is strange to imagine ceo of a company is going to drop everything to revive
dead emulsion lines ( with no widespread infrastructure to finish them, or do anything drastic when there is
no growing customer base ) to cater to the whims / wants / needs of what comes down to a handful of people
not billions of people. right now its on its head, before it was the profits of the analog industry that kept their other side alive
now the they are going to have to do the opposite .
it was a nice gesture to ask the film shooting community for suggestions
( i was touched to get a reply ) im not going to imagine any time in the future that they take
what i or most people suggested to be their plan.

i think a lot of credit should be given to the other analog film
suppliers who have done a very good job picking up the slack while KODAK and ALARIS have made drastic moves to save their skins ...
if it comes down to someone else make their product for them more power to them.
who knows, maybe if they did this 10 years ago ( instead of being so perfection minded :munch: ) ... they would have been able
to re-use sell off, repurpose incubate some of their now defunct campus/ideas, kept jobs and stayed better afloat.
 

AgX

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,972
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Well, I stated it is fraction of their business. KA did not publish yet figures about the relation of their revenues.

For a new CEO not originating from the photochemical world his perception of businesses aside of figures is of influence too.
 

kb3lms

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 24, 2006
Messages
1,004
Location
Reading, PA
Format
35mm

On the other hand, it gives KA until the machines at Bldg 38 are scrapped (or re-purposed for the box printing venture) to be up and running and coating film once again at Harrow. Many, if not all, of the current or at least recent films were coated there at one time and there are still emulsion people alive to figure it out. No, I did not say it was a simple undertaking, but such things can be done. As much as the new people don't say anything about making film, I haven't seen where they said they weren't going to make it either. Business publications want to hear about what a company is doing that's new. Kodak, in whatever form, making film is not news. Same as if Ford said they were going to be making cars. So what? Everyone knows that.

It would have been simple enough for KA to dump the film business before taking over the remains of the carcass. They did not do that. KA was to never have the motion picture business in the first place as that was specifically cut out of the deal. KA's business model for film probably does not really care about motion picture film.

The best opportunity to keep any coated product being made is that the coating line is multi-purpose as in that other things can be coated on it beside photographic products. I'd like to be able to buy Ektar and T-Max for the foreseeable future. Where and how it is coated I do not really care.

Stop with all the doom and gloom already. Kodak as a whole hasn't said much of anything about film in the last 10 or 12 years as if their denial of it's very existence would be their saving grace. It wasn't. That Bldg 38 has a firm date with the cutting torch and wrecking ball is not much in doubt. It never was. All this was put in the works when Whitmore drove the company back to a film concentration in 1993 when those of us who worked there knew it was short-sighted as hell. Actually, so did he, but, he's dead. So the short-sightedness was long enough for him. 20 years later and we can still buy Kodak film despite Eastman Kodak's best intentions. There were as successful at ending sales and manufacture of their bread and butter product as they were at anything else they tried to do to turn the company around. In other words, they sucked at killing off film, too.

But we don't know what other plans there are at KA the same as we don't know what's going to happen at Ilford or Ferrania or General Motors. If all the decisions were being made and overseen in Rochester then there wouldn't be much hope. But they aren't. They are supposed to be being made in England and I'll take the liberty of calling that Europe. (I don't know how Englishmen feel about that, though.) Europe has Ilford and Adox and Foma alive. Plus Ferrania trying to come out of the grave and Agfa around in some form. (And my apologies to whoever else I forgot) Why? Because in my experience business in Europe thinks longer term and realizes that while niche markets maybe aren't high growth industries, there are still customers to be served and money to be made. My hope is that the thinking at KA is along these lines. A sustainable model for a right sized business that serves a loyal customer base and earns a consistent return for their pension fund.
 

Ken Nadvornick

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
4,943
Location
Monroe, WA, USA
Format
Multi Format
That was spoken from the heart...

Ken
 

Sal Santamaura

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
7,535
Location
San Clemente, California
Format
Multi Format
...I'd like to be able to buy Ektar and T-Max for the foreseeable future. Where and how it is coated I do not really care...
If by Ektar and TMAX you mean the films sold under those names today, you should care. Coated elsewhere, even if an attempt is made to duplicate their characteristics, the resulting films will not be the same. To what extent they would differ is unknown and might determine whether you'd still want to buy them.

...Whitmore drove the company back to a film concentration in 1993...those of us who worked there knew it was short-sighted as hell...
In my opinion the only thing short-sighted about that was not simultaneously continuing intensive R&D on digital, patenting everything related, then locking those rights to produce unused in a vault while simultaneously continuing to enjoy the high margins returned by film and paper for many, many more decades.

...Stop with all the doom and gloom already...
Reality sucks, but it's real.

...My hope is...
My favorite bumper sticker: "I feel much better since I gave up hope." From among all those seen on other cars while commuting to and from work in another industry that's gone the same route as Kodak film.
 

Xmas

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
6,398
Location
UK
Format
35mm RF

KA would need a complete set from kettle to finishing & Id imagine bits of it are on local scrap heap... If building 38 stops KA could offer production people holidays in Europe (ok Harrow) but even if the kit is out of commission it would still be expensive, even moving production kit from 38 difficult.

As the film market is still shrinking investments are difficult to justify.

Ilford used to make 220 but would need investment to do so again, just for a finishing machine, they say no.

You omitted Orwo who make two mono cine films. Some of the people who shot 5222 stills have migrated from 5222 already.

Lomo's 400 ISO 35mm mono is made in USA their 400 ISO 120 in China.

The norm is the large diversified companies stop marginally profitable areas, Fuji and Kodak may stop early. To my mind this is silly but seen it done all to often.
 

Sal Santamaura

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Messages
7,535
Location
San Clemente, California
Format
Multi Format
Although not Kodak Alaris-related, this article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal


indicates that Rochester film manufacturing will probably get a reprieve for several years (it's not finalized yet). If that happens and Kodak Alaris elects to continue purchasing/reselling still film, the end will have been delayed.

Interesting to note that the article says closure of Bldg. 38 had been under serious consideration unless the studios stepped in to provide Kodak film with some financial life support. Those same studios declined to invest in Bldg. 38 directly.