another great kodak color paper bites the dust - Ultra RIP

PHOTOTONE · Dec 10, 2007

You know, as more and more local and mail-order vendors are reluctant to actually stock film-based product, and I think Kodak has also increased minimum orders, this situation will continue to vex us consumers. I wish there was an answer. There are so few "film friendly" vendors now. My longtime supplier of things Kodak only lists me and one other photographer as users of 4x5 Ektachrome EPP, and therefore is reluctant to stock more than just a few boxes...and this is a nationwide mail-order vendor. And to make matters more "vexing", a number of the large-format film friendly mail-order vendors are not really stockists of color transparency materials, rather focusing on b/w materials.

Photo Engineer · Dec 10, 2007

Ilford has done the same. I could not get some Ilford print developer, as I had to order a full case to get one.

PE

PHOTOTONE · Dec 10, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
Ilford has done the same. I could not get some Ilford print developer, as I had to order a full case to get one.

PE

So, it seems the manufacturers are actually part of the supply problem, if they make it harder for vendors to stock reasonable quantities. This is not right.

PHOTOTONE · Dec 10, 2007

In fact, going beyond my post above, I will state that I think the manufacturers should make it easier for a vendor to stock small quantities of film, paper and chemicals, rather than harder, as requiring high minimum orders just means that many will cease to stock any inventory at all. I see this all over. If the manufacturers want to foster interest in, and support for traditional photo supplies, they should make it easier for the vendors.

Photo Engineer · Dec 10, 2007

Part of the problem is the shipping cost and part of that is the hazmat charge.

PE

dxphoto · Dec 10, 2007

is kodak going digital period?

PHOTOTONE · Dec 11, 2007

Photo Engineer said:
Part of the problem is the shipping cost and part of that is the hazmat charge.

PE

Photographers Formulary seems to have worked out the haz-mat issue satisfactorily.

Photo Engineer · Dec 11, 2007

dxphoto said:
is kodak going digital period?

No.

PE

Lopaka · Dec 11, 2007

dxphoto said:
is kodak going digital period?

Reluctant to put too much into this, as the subject has been beat to death already, but here goes:

Despite some irritating comments by their chairman intended to quiet some WallStreet nincompoops and keep the stock price from tanking, Kodak will continue to manufacture (or sub-contract) traditional products as long as they can economically sustain it. Keep in mind they are a large corporation and are geared for mass production/mass marketing and not set up to profitably manage small "niche" businesses. In their business model when they can no longer make a profit on a particular product, they will not likely change the nature of the corporation, but will cancel the product. It is not, however, a "plan" to get out of traditional products - only the economics of it will govern its future.

Note that my comments are not from "inside information" only an analysis based on 35 years in the business world.

Bob

maxbloom · Dec 12, 2007

I just have to jump in for a second and say, WOW. I mean I knew most here were very interested in traditional processes, but that whole conversation about inkjet vs RA-4 in small drug-store-style labs was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Kiosks use neither. They're dye-sub for Christ's sake.

Back to your regularly scheduled analog banter.

dslater · Dec 12, 2007

maxbloom said:
I just have to jump in for a second and say, WOW. I mean I knew most here were very interested in traditional processes, but that whole conversation about inkjet vs RA-4 in small drug-store-style labs was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Kiosks use neither. They're dye-sub for Christ's sake.

Back to your regularly scheduled analog banter.

Well - thank you for that rude response - sorry we all seem so stupid to you. However, why would you expect us to know or care what a kiosk printer uses? I have never used one of those and probably never will as I have never seen a decent print come out of one. When I get my digital camera, I intend to have my images printed somewhere that uses RA-4 printing either on Crystal Archive or Endura.

Photo Engineer · Dec 12, 2007

I'm not going to belabor the chemistry or other issues involved, but actually dye sublimation comes closest to being analog than any other digital process. The original research on this was started in the 70s in the lab adjacent to mine, with a friend heading the project, so I watched it develop (pun unintended).

PE

langedp · Dec 13, 2007

PHOTOTONE said:
So, it seems the manufacturers are actually part of the supply problem, if they make it harder for vendors to stock reasonable quantities. This is not right.

I think we just need to accept that online retailers are the only channel that can afford to stock these items. There isn't enough volume left to spread it around to every mom & pop photo dealer around the country. B&H and Adorama seem to stock most items and their prices are generally the best. It's better to consolidate the volume to a few big online retailers so that inventories turn faster and the stock stays fresh. Let's not forget that Kodak, B&H, and the mom & pop stores are all in business to make money. They're not charity organizations. If they can't make a profit on slow moving inventory, they'll stop carrying it. Any business manager should do the same.

Dave

dslater · Dec 13, 2007

So I got some Endura Ultra from B&H. Just tried it out tonight. While it is a bit more contrasty than Endura Supra, it's not a huge difference. Looks to like less than the difference between 2 grades of B&W paper. The colors didn't look any more saturated to me, but that may be the print I'm using.

Dan

another great kodak color paper bites the dust - Ultra RIP

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