Another gift lens

[Whiteymorange]

I have been given a great deal of camera gear over the last few years by a wonderful old man who recently died. One piece was a 5x7 Folmer and Schwing camera in very nice condition (hadn't been used since 1927) but without a lens. I bought an old B&L convertible lens for it on ebay that works great. This weekend my brother-in-law arrived with another lens from the estate that he felt might be the one that uncle Edmund had used on the camera. I don't know how to research it. Any help?

It's in a Wollensak Victo No2 shutter that shows up as the "inexpensive" option in their 1919 catalogue (thanks, cameraeccentric.com for posting the catalogue!) It's marked f 6,8,11,16,22,32,45

The lens may be the Velostigmat Series IV that is shown as being available in that shutter, but there is one confusing bit - the images of Wollensak lenses in the catalogue each have engraved manufacturer and focal length information showing on the front beveled rim, this has nothing. The glass is in great shape, the shutter needs a some cleaning and exercise and the lensboard is a bit of a home-made disaster, but I'll be darned if I can figure out anything about who made the lens. Seems to be two groups of two elements each (if I understand the process for determining this that people have posted here in the recent past. I'm a newbie at this stuff.)

Is it possible (likely) that this was a lens made to be in a barrel mount where the manufacturers mark was on the side? The catalogue gives the pricing of the Series IV lenses in terms of shutter mounts and says that the Victo shutter will be the price of the barrel mount.

Thanks in advance to all you folks who will read this, think on it, write thoughtful responses and tell me more than I thought I was asking. This is a great community and a great site! Now if I could just get out there and use some of this old stuff...

Whitey

 

[removed account4]

hey whitey

can you post an image of the lens?

- john

 

[Whiteymorange]

lens pic

Sorry, John. Little spacing out there. Here are some pictures of the mystery lens.(They are in my member gallery if they don't show up below - I'm not sure of the posting process yet) This guy had all sorts of things and he may have put this together from spare parts. Kind of a wonderfully crazy old RI yankee. Any thoughts?

 

[Jeremy]

I love this old stuff! What's really fun is that how the shutter says to use 16-45 for "day" and 6.8-11 for "dark."

 

[jimgalli]

I'll guess this is an extra rapid rectilinear type. Tune up that shutter and move in for some portraits at f6 just to see what you'll get. It probably was part of some long forgotten folder that went in the trash and someone saved the lens.

 

[gma]

This looks almost identical to a Wollensak rapid rectilinear 8" lens I have in a Betax #2 shutter, patent date 1912.

A VERY gentle cleaning ( no oil ) should restore the shutter to good operating condition IMO. As I understand these simple shutters were not intended to be lubricated at all. Oil will result in erratic operation.

 

[Whiteymorange]

Aha!

I knew the pictures would do it. The lensboard that came with this thing is 2 5/8" by 2 1/2" and is cut from an old brass sign, with holes drilled at the corners for attaching to the face of a piece of wood.

I have cleaned the glass carefully and found it very nice indeed. Uncoated, it seems, but I'm getting used to that. I don't know that I own any coated lenses except for my 35's and a Rolleiflex.

I gave the shutter a good wash down with electronic cleaner. It frees up a lot of stuff and does not leave any residue.- It's also rather kind to paint and plastic, though undoubtably bad for people, animals and nature in general. The old clicker seems to work pretty well above 1/10 second. All guesswork anyway with the old ones until somebody like S.K.Grimes goes and checks it for you.

I'm going to check on on a 4x5 speed graphic - and maybe on that Folmer and Schwing - just to see what happens. I have a few 4x5 oldies but those two are the easiest to make lensboards for. I use 1/4 MDF glued up and painted flat black.

Thanks, folks. I'll try to get some shots taken and posted so that I can share the wealth.

Whitey

 

[removed account4]

SNIP:

The old clicker seems to work pretty well above 1/10 second. All guesswork anyway with the old ones until somebody like S.K.Grimes goes and checks it for you.
Whitey

hi whitey -

you can probably use the lens converted with just the rear cells and get something fun on your film. your fstop will be a bit off ( maybe 1-1.5 stops). just make sure you don't take your lens to the grimes camer repair in south boston. before i knew any better, i thought it was steve grime's shop ... i only realized after a hooror story of an experience that it was only his name, and not his shop ...

adam dau &co at steve's shop are just a short ride down rt 295 if you find yourself in ri, and are itchin' to get a cla. they'll probably give you a tour !

-john

 

[glennfromwy]

The Velostigmat is a triplet, so that pretty much squashes that theory. I'll bet it's Rapid Rectilinear. You should give it a try. You may be in for a pleasant surprise.

 

[Whiteymorange]

SNIP:


adam dau &co at steve's shop are just a short ride down rt 295 if you find yourself in ri, and are itchin' to get a cla. they'll probably give you a tour !

-john

I found the shop by going up in the freight elevator withe a UPS guy. When I got there thay wondered how I had found them. Little place, great people, great work.

 

[c.d.ewen]

I found the shop by going up in the freight elevator withe a UPS guy. When I got there thay wondered how I had found them. Little place, great people, great work.

REAL MEN take the stairs. Of course, you have to find them.

 

[Whiteymorange]

Ah yes, the old "can't get there from here" problem. I wonder at the fire laws that let a staircase fail to make it to the top floor... Real men may take the stairs; more power to them. Smart men take the elevator.

 

[Whiteymorange]

Better than I thought!

Here is part of an negative taken with the gift lens.

5x7 J&C classic 200 f22 1/100

The building on the left is actually close to the center of the image. I have a scanner that will do 4x5 but nothing for 5x7. The lens looks to have fairly good coverage and seems to be a moderate wide angle for this format, though I can't work that part out, being a "bear of little brain."

I'm gonna take Jim Galli's advice and try some up-close and personal work at f6... if I can get people to put up with posing for me. I don't have cats, even uncooperative ones like Bob's.

Whitey

 

[c.d.ewen]

Ah yes, the old "can't get there from here" problem. I wonder at the fire laws that let a staircase fail to make it to the top floor... Real men may take the stairs; more power to them. Smart men take the elevator.

Ahhh, my timidity exposed! I'll confess I lacked the courage to get onto a freight elevator in a dilapidated old factory building alone.

For the record, in case others may venture a visit, SK Grimes is located on the top floor of an old 5-story brick factory, at the end furthest from the street. It's in an industrial area, which has a 'well-worn' look to it. Thrifty Yankees, of course, know that these well-built edifaces still have another century's use in them.

Scorning mechanical advantage, I started up a staircase, only to find that it ended after a floor or two. As fires spread from floor to floor through stairways, this may have been an effort to limit their spread. My modern eyes were surprised at the lack of firedoors. Climbing over broken pallets and rooms full of industrial detritus, I found another stairway that took me to the top floor. Throughout my travels, I never saw, nor heard, any human activity in the building.

Arriving winded and weary at the Grimes shop, you're in a proper, respectful mood. There, at the end of the shop, is the Green Altar of Grimes - Steve's old lathe (painted green). Adam, et al., prefer the computer-controlled lathes. Steve, being an old master, turned out his treasures on a manual lathe. The saints forgive me, but I can't recall if it was a South Bend or a Bridgeport.

Bending this soliloque towards the useful, I see you posted a partial scan of a 5x7. I regularly scan 8x10's and, for that matter, 3-4 ft long Cirkut negatives, 4 inches at a time with an Epson 2450. I stitch them together in PhotoShop. You may do this already, but if you don't, I'd be happy to describe my method.

Charley

 

[Whiteymorange]

Anyway you get there

Thanks, Charley. Anyway you get to the Grimes shop, it's worth the pilgrimage. The place is wonderful for the combination of creativity and craftsmanship that is so evident. Being a packrat and a tinkerer, I always feel quite at home.

I must admit that the elevator is a bit... well, let's just say it's an adventure. The UPS guy, however, said it was far from the worst he encounters in a day's work. He gave me the courage to try it again - no bones broken, no lives lost.

I stitch scans together all the time. I just felt that this was only interesting to those folks who had commented on the lens, and that the image was marginal at best - why bother?

Whitey