Another boring fixer thread

[eclarke]

I've had a local source of Hypam for a long time but it has dried up. Shipping on a gallon of fixer is now about $20 to my house and the same for Ammonium Sulfite solution. Somebody suggested this:

Rapid fixer

Water 50c (125f) - 500 ml.

Sodium Thiosulfate (HYPO) - 200 g.

Ammoium Choride - 85 g.

Sodium Sulphite - 19.6 g.

Potassium Alum - 19.6 g.

Cold water to make 1 L.

The question is, is this feasible? Where does the chlorine go?

 

[Gerald C Koch]

All the ions remain in solution they don't go anywhere. Formulas of this type are faster than sodium thiosulfate fixers but not as fast as true ammonium thiosulfate fixers nor is their capacity the same. So a reasonable compromise in your situation.

 

[Anon Ymous]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but potassium alum would be used for a hardening fixer, which isn't necessarily desirable. But then, this fixer must be mildly alkaline, while hardening fixers need to be acidic, aren't they? Does this formula make sense?

 

[eclarke]

All the ions remain in solution they don't go anywhere. Formulas of this type are faster than sodium thiosulfate fixers but not as fast as true ammonium thiosulfate fixers nor is their capacity the same. So a reasonable compromise in your situation.

The ammonium thiosulfate solution is the rub..as much to ship it as fixer. There don't seem to be any fertilizer companies who can sell you some in Milwaukee.

 

[eclarke]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but potassium alum would be used for a hardening fixer, which isn't necessarily desirable. But then, this fixer must be mildly alkaline, while hardening fixers need to be acidic, aren't they? Does this formula make sense?

That's why I was asking, not enough info along with the formula. My problem is while printing, I am very fast and productive when I print, having to use a hypo fixer would kill my time frame. It's sad that transportation is more expensive than product!

 

[nworth]

I'm not sure if just the ammonium chloride will make the solution acid enough to let the alum be an effective hardener. Kodak F-7 has a bit less NH4Cl but adds acetic and boric acid. You could just leave it out and get a non-hardening sort of rapid fix.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

feel free to try any of these:yous to keep and share.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The ammonium thiosulfate solution is the rub..as much to ship it as fixer. There don't seem to be any fertilizer companies who can sell you some in Milwaukee.

Yes, but when you mix the working solution, you dilute it!

 

[Rudeofus]

I'm not sure if just the ammonium chloride will make the solution acid enough to let the alum be an effective hardener

It won't. Compare this formula to Agfa 304 which uses 20g/l Sodium Metabisulfite instead of Sodium Sulfite, and which has a pH of about 4.5. Also, if you really need that Alum hardener in your fixer: any reasonable hardening fixer should contain Boric Acid and/or another source of Borate ion, see patent US1981391.

 

[eclarke]

Do not need the hardener....

 

[Rudeofus]

Do not need the hardener....

In that case you'd ditch the Alum and end up with a fixer made from Sodium Thiosulfate, Sodium Sulfite and Ammonium Chloride. Two things:

1. The optimal amount of Ammonium Chloride seems to depend strongly on its impurities. I have used technical grade Ammonium Chloride and saw a steep decrease in performance (measured as increasing film clearing time) above 45 g/l. Ole must have made similar experiences when he formulated (there was a url link here which no longer exists), whereas Relayer seems to have been (there was a url link here which no longer exists) with 80+ g/l. I have no idea what the impurity may be that has haunted Ole and me, but you should test and optimize the optimum Ammonium Chloride amount for whatever batch of Ammonium Chloride you plan on using.
2. Next thing is fixer pH. It has been advertised high and wide that neutral or alkaline fixers have great advantages during the following wash cycle, but if pH goes up to high, your fixer will emit an awful Ammonia stench, especially if you process in trays. In my experience this pH limit is just below 7, but Ole's comment in his article claims that anything below pH 9 is ok. Use your nose to make a decision for yourself, but for the sake of your lungs try to avoid catching a deep breath of Ammonia.

 

[37th Exposure]

How much would you save mixing your own?

I have the same dilemma. I now have to order all my Ilford fixers by mail and it costs about $20 to ship a five litre jug of Hypam or Rapid fix concentrate to me. Considering the shipping is spread over what amounts to 25 liters of working solution, it is only about 50 cents per liter more than what I would have paid if I could buy the fix locally. I am assuming you mean the five liter concentrate when you state the shipping costs for a gallon (about 4ltr) so your increase would be the same. I also considered Agfa 304 or one of the ATF series self mixed, or even ye olde Kodak F-5. You know what. 50 cents is quite a bargain!