Angered!

Jarvman · Jan 17, 2008

I got the 'optically and mechanically perfect but worthy of recovering' Linhof Tech V I won on eBay for £950 last night. What a fxxxxxg disappointment! One of the lenses is caked in fungus and even has a visible scratch in it. The metalwork is chipped corroded in places and even though I don't understand how to use the movements yet I'm certain that some are unfunctional. The knobs for the back movements come off when twisting them around. So it's going back to the guy today and I'm having my £950 back. The worst thing is I've spent a month emailing him to arrange a sale and £50 in postage charges by the time I send it back. He's going to get stung for some hefty eBay and PayPal charges though. Why oh why didn't he include better pictures or was more honest with me. Grr! I don't know where to turn for 4x5 gear now. I really wanted one of these cameras. Are there any new folding wooden field cameras with the same range of movements as a tech in the same price bracket?

Ian Grant · Jan 17, 2008

I think I was looking at that camera too (Lincs), but I figured it was too expensive for me. Reading the listing it sounded far better than you describe. Definitely send it back.

You should be able to pick up an excellent Wista or even a new Shen-Hao for quite a lot less than that Linhof, ok not with 3 lenses but plenty of good ones on ebay.

Bad luck

Ian

mmcclellan · Jan 17, 2008

Frankly, almost any wooden folding field camera will probably have more movements than you'll ever use, and they will be cheaper than the Linhof. You can surely do better with a Wisner, Zone VI, Canham, Toyo, or pretty much any of the varieties that are out there, especially if you're doing landscapes, portraits, architecture, and even the occasional product shot.

Good luck sorting it all out and I hope you find something that will serve your purposes and save you some money.

Ian Grant · Jan 17, 2008

The problem with a Wisner, Zone VI, Canham etc is that there are very few in the UK, and tax/duty getting one through customs and into the UK adds a fraction over 20%, the tax is on the camera AND the shipping.

But yes in fact most wooden 5x4's will have more movements than a Linhof.

Ian

Trevor Crone · Jan 17, 2008

I don't know what your budget is but Teamwork are selling the Wista 45SP(Linhof copy) new for £1300 inc VAT, however does not include a lens.

Robert White have the Shen Hao 4x5 new for £575 inc. VAT, again no lens.

Always worth giving them a call to see if they can cut you a deal for a complete package. I always ask and you would be surprised what they can come up with, but not all the time.

Good luck, and yes ebay can be a real pain, I've been stung before.

keeds · Jan 17, 2008

PM sent about a Wista DX that needs a new home...

Ian Grant · Jan 17, 2008

The Wista DX is an excellent camera, I've had mine for over 20 years and can highly recommend them. If Andrew's offering you a good deal snap his hand off and take it

Ian

photobum · Jan 17, 2008

I don't know who an equivalent dealer would be in the EU. You should ask around. Over here buying from Midwest, KEH or Quality Camera is way better than trusting e-bay. Quite often Midwest or KEH prices are better too. It's nice to be able to buy something and not get screwed.

Ian Grant · Jan 17, 2008

It's rare for UK photographers to buy cameras or lenses from elsewhere in the EU because of language barriers, except perhaps via ebay.

The major UK dealers for LF equipment second-hand are:

Ropert White
Bob Rigby
Teamwork
Peter Walnes

I've used all four and they are excellent, very accurate with their descriptions and 100% trustworthy.

ffordes also have a good name, but I've never used then.

There's one in Croydon but be very wary, another in London who advertise heavily but I wouldn't trust.

Ian

Ole · Jan 17, 2008

I received my new ebay 210mm G-Claron today, bought as a replacement for one with a badly fogged rear cell.

The new one had only the front cell...

DougGrosjean · Jan 17, 2008

Been my experience that more than half the camera stuff on 'bay is mis-represented.

Reputable buyers will negotiate to make it right. My Widelux was like that, a partial refund was applied to repairs.

Many aren't worth messing with because the money involved isn't much.

But so much is mis-represented that it was a shock to me recently to get a 210 Ross lens that was exactly as presented. Had both cells, shutter speeds sounded right, etc. Wow!

steve simmons · Jan 17, 2008

You really don't need a Technika to have a good camera. You have many choices.

Before you select a camera you should decide what features you need. Do some reading about camera styles and types, lens selections, etc. before buying a camera.

I know there is always the temptation to buy on EBAY and beat the dealers out of their 'markup'. It can be a false economy. I hope he gives you a refund.

steve simmons
www.viewcamera.com

Trevor Crone · Jan 17, 2008

Don't forget Linhof & Studio they are great people to deal with. They often have second hand stuff before it hits their website. I've only ever bought lenses from them and they often throw in a decent filter (Heliopan) if you try and get them to drop their prices. I would be surprised if they wouldn't do a decent deal on a complete package.

Linhof & Studio are also excellent for repairs. Handy for the odd ebay piece of c..p!

pauliej · Jan 17, 2008

When you buy stuff from e-bay, etc., sight unseen, I'm a thinkin' ya gets what ya pays for. Not trying to kick a guy when he's feeling bad, but what else can you expect? Did you think it was brand new, still in the box? I think e-bay is sorta like a flea market, with the fleas included. Why else would stuff go for so cheap.

Apologies, not trying to pour salt on your wounded pride.

Paul

david b · Jan 17, 2008

I've had nothing but luck with ebay. Several hundred transactions.

But there is a guy who is selling LF gear right now who refuses to add photos to his auctions and will only
send the photos to you if you are "serious".

Pretty funny.

Jarvman · Jan 17, 2008

Yeah Ian it was the one in Lincs. If it was as good as the guy described it at £950 it would've been a good buy with 3 lenses. Optically and mechanically perfest my arse. Surely somebody who has bought a Linhof from new as he apparently did can spot lifeforms growing in the lens not to mention a gouge in it. I've sent it straight back today and so long as I see my money back I'll be happy. It's a disappointment though. After feeling the thing though I can see the weight would've been a big limitation especially taking it on holidays. I've lost out on the postage but the guy is going to get a hammering through eBay and PalPal fees on that amount of money. It's just been a big waste of time. To be honest I might just buy the Fuji 6x9 with a standard lens to go with my wide angle one and spend money on a meduim format enlarger so I can print the negs from my darkroom at home instead of college. A 5x4 is tempting though. I would like to see what sort of possibilities using movements would open up and like the idea of adding a panoramic rollfilm back to one.

david b · Jan 17, 2008

If he gives you the refund, paypal refunds the fees too.

If you bought through ebay, he can ask for the fees back as long as you agree to it.

Jarvman · Jan 17, 2008

pauliej said:
When you buy stuff from e-bay, etc., sight unseen, I'm a thinkin' ya gets what ya pays for. Not trying to kick a guy when he's feeling bad, but what else can you expect? Did you think it was brand new, still in the box? I think e-bay is sorta like a flea market, with the fleas included. Why else would stuff go for so cheap.

Apologies, not trying to pour salt on your wounded pride.

Paul

There were pictures, just no extreme close up's or decent photos which you would expect from somebody who has owned and can apparently operate a linhof! So yeah in that sense it was a bit stupid of me. I asked time and time again if it was ok and if someone insists something is in working order you just have to take their word really. No way of knowing without actually physically having the camera. I never thought it was brand new in the box, just 'worthy of recovering' as he put it which I was going to do. I was already set to buy new leather off cameraleather.com. It's a bit gutting. I bought a Fuji GSWIII 6x9 in absolutely mint condition for £595 a few weeks back and am loving it. You win some you lose some eh.

Ian Grant · Jan 17, 2008

pauliej said:
When you buy stuff from e-bay, etc., sight unseen, I'm a thinkin' ya gets what ya pays for. Not trying to kick a guy when he's feeling bad, but what else can you expect? Did you think it was brand new, still in the box? I think e-bay is sorta like a flea market, with the fleas included. Why else would stuff go for so cheap.

Apologies, not trying to pour salt on your wounded pride.

Paul

I've bought quite a lot of equipment using ebay and in general have done extremely well.

A mint 75mm f8 SA from Italy was actually new in its box, never even been mounted on a lens board,2 10x8 cameras from the US exxcellent, various other LF lenses and cameras exactly as described.

The major dud was a pair of 5x4 Speed Graphics, but to be fair cheap, sold as a pair to make one good one from the parts, extremely rough to look at and totally different one pre-Anniversary the other post. But even these are now almost fully restored at very little extra cost.

The secret with ebay is look closely at the feedback, also what else are they selling, and you can often spot a few APUG members selling there. Some excellent LF lenses currently from Carl Radford.

Don't forget the classifieds here on APUG, this is an excellent resource, again somewhere I've bought a lot of equipment through, 2 lf dev tanks, light-meters, lenses, cameras, paper etc.

Last but not least offers of cameras on the forum posts here, sometimes people just want their unused camera's etc to go to a good home where they think someone will make good use of them. I added this because I got a Crown Graphic for my nieces to use from someone who wanted to offer his camera to a LF newbie as an entry level camera at a nominal price.

Ian

Trevor Crone · Jan 17, 2008

I have bought a couple of very nice LF lenses from ebay in the past but also been less then happy with other items (not photographic). Most sellers will give refunds or offer a repair if possible.

When I sell stuff I always do my best to offer a 7 day return for a refund for whatever the reason.

Richard Kelham · Jan 17, 2008

Sources for S/H LF gear Ffordes are good, as are MXV both from personal experience. Mr Cad in Croydon tends to be overpriced/optimistic I have bought from him happily in the (distant) past, but always in person.

Another dealer worth a look is KP Professional in Cambridge.

Plenty of good gear out there. Woodies like the Wista and Shen Hao, or, if you prefer the metal technical camera type, look for an MPP especially the Mk8 as good as a Technika (well almost) and a fraction the price.

Richard

Tom Kershaw · Jan 17, 2008

Not large format, but I've had good experiences with Ffordes for medium format kit. I've only used MXV once, a while ago, no complaints.

Tom.

buze · Jan 17, 2008

I bought almost all my kit on eBay, I've been mostly lucky, after a few hundred of transactions. However you need to put a bit of pressure on the sellers, otherwise, most will try to rob you. Some people who would be technicaly described as 'honest' on the street lose all their inhibitions whrn they hit eBay and /will/ try to rob you.

You just have to remind them of real life by contacting them immediately after the sale etc. Also I always use a derivative of this little blurb to my paypal payments:

Thank you for this auction!
Please note the following: Faulty equipment must be indicated as such, if the equipment has mechanical problems, or optical problems (fungu, mould, lots of dust) it must be indicated in the auction, because it will need servicing, and in some case, it could be ruined.
So before posting this item to me make *sure* it is not faulty, due to recent abuses from sellers, I will not accept to pay to return faulty items, I will leave immediate negative feedback instead.
If you feel that the equipment might be faulty despite the description, please discuss it with me *now* before posting anything.
Please forgive any rudeness from this comment, understand It is not personal!
Best Regards,
Michael

Somehow, how and then, people find out that the dog has eaten the lens, or the kid accidentaly broke it, or Divine Wind swept thru and took it away to Equipment Heaven and the poor, apologetic seller is very sad to have to cancel the transaction at that point.

P C Headland · Jan 18, 2008

You could look for an MPP Microtechnical camera - either the MKVII or MKVIII. Somewhat cheaper than a Linhoff, but a good camera. Not too difficult to find in the UK either, and sometimes referred to as the "British Linhoff"

I bought mine from Peter Loy. Excellent price and in better condition than described.

BrianShaw · Jan 18, 2008

buze said:
However you need to put a bit of pressure on the sellers, otherwise, most will try to rob you.

cynical malarkey, in my opinion. "Most" are pretty decent people, in my experience... after a few hundred purchases.

Angered!

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