And What of Amidol's Future?

James Bleifus · Dec 3, 2005

Now that Azo has fallen into a few people's hands I have to wonder what the future of Amidol is. My understanding is that the only use for Amidol is as a film and paper developer and I'm willing to bet that Azoites made up the majority of purchasers. Is Amidol at risk of disappearing? Will the slow-moving group purchase from China fall apart? Since I use Amidol with enlarging paper I'd love some insight.

Cheers, James

jim appleyard · Dec 3, 2005

I don't think it will disappear right away, although it may get more expensive and harder to find. A small, yet dedicated group of people use it for make regular enlargements; they say nothing works quite like it.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 3, 2005

Amidol is great for J&C Exposition graded and other papers. Holographers also seem to use amidol.

User Removed · Dec 3, 2005

I have used Amidol with a few other papers, and was not really please with the tone it produced. I might play around with the formula and come up with something that works well with Oriental Seagull. If so, I will keep using it even after the AZO is gone.

Anyone have a good Amidol formula to produce a cool tone with Oriental Seagull?

avandesande · Dec 3, 2005

amidol is a popular hair coloring in asia

Earl Dunbar · Dec 3, 2005

I used Amidol with at least two FB papers (Brilliant graded and mg, and Ilford Gallerie) several years ago. It was quite good with Brilliant, which was my standard combination. I never tried it with film.

Earl

Peter Schrager · Dec 3, 2005

amidol

I already use it with graded Oriental. Works great. Try adding a little more Pott. Bromide to the mix. Nothing quite matches it for blacks...
Peter

magic823 · Dec 3, 2005

How is Amidol produced? Why does China seem to be the only source?

Thanks,
Steve

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 3, 2005

I don't know that China is the only source, but it seems that there is a significant amount of chemical production in China and India. I'd guess that it is a combination of natural resources, lax environmental regulations and cheap labor that make these countries likely sources for bulk chemicals.

Sal Santamaura · Dec 3, 2005

Earl Dunbar said:
I used Amidol with at least two FB papers (Brilliant graded ...) several years ago. It was quite good with Brilliant, which was my standard combination.

If you really liked that combination, note that the last incarnation of Brilliant Bromide was rebranded Kentmere Bromide. You can use it again by ordering the current Kentmere. I've no affiliation with Kentmere or any other photo manufacturer/retailer; just a satisfied user. I used recent Brilliant Bromide with Photographers' Formulary BW-65, and am planning to try it and a few other developers with Kentmere.

James Bleifus · Dec 3, 2005

jim appleyard said:
although it may get more expensive and harder to find.

Amidol growing more expensive is one of my fears. I've just ordered some Ansco 120 and 130 to sample with Kentmere Bromide to see if it will be an adequate (or superior) substitute. I'm hoping that the dual developer combination will give a similar result as the Amidol/water bath solution.

Cheers, James

c6h6o3 · Dec 3, 2005

I have yet to find a viable substitute for Amidol. Ansco 130 doesn't cut it and neither does BW-65, no matter what the Formulary says.

avandesande · Dec 3, 2005

I am going to start making it. I sent in for LLC and haven't gotten it back yet. It isn't that easy to buy chemicals anymore. I need a company and commercial bank account. I don't know how long it will take for me to get it all together.

James Bleifus · Dec 4, 2005

c6h6o3 said:
I have yet to find a viable substitute for Amidol. Ansco 130 doesn't cut it and neither does BW-65, no matter what the Formulary says.

Thanks for the info, Jim. My feeling is that the only way to know for sure is to try it. I may try Selectol Soft and Dektol at that same time.

Cheers, James

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 4, 2005

McPhotoX said:
I have used Amidol with a few other papers, and was not really please with the tone it produced. I might play around with the formula and come up with something that works well with Oriental Seagull. If so, I will keep using it even after the AZO is gone.

Anyone have a good Amidol formula to produce a cool tone with Oriental Seagull?

Try Michael A Smith's Amidol formula for enlarging paper (Michael & Paula website)

Michael adds 6ml of a 1% solution of Benzotriazle to each liter of amidol deveoper. He also adds 2ml of a 10% KBR solution to each liter of developer.

magic823 · Dec 4, 2005

avandesande said:
I am going to start making it. I sent in for LLC and haven't gotten it back yet. It isn't that easy to buy chemicals anymore. I need a company and commercial bank account. I don't know how long it will take for me to get it all together.

How do you make it? I've found very little about it (manufacturing) searching the Internet.

Steve

Donald Miller · Dec 4, 2005

Tom Hoskinson said:
Try Michael A Smith's Amidol formula for enlarging paper (Michael & Paula website)

Michael adds 6ml of a 1% solution of Benzotriazle to each liter of amidol deveoper. He also adds 2ml of a 10% KBR solution to each liter of developer.

I tried MAS formula for enlarging paper the other day and it seriously has no benefit over Zone VI developer in my opinion.

If you are casting about for a Amidol substitute, you might find the results with PPPD that Jorge and I worked up to be of interest to you.

jim appleyard · Dec 4, 2005

Donald Miller said:
I tried MAS formula for enlarging paper the other day and it seriously has no benefit over Zone VI developer in my opinion.

If you are casting about for a Amidol substitute, you might find the results with PPPD that Jorge and I worked up to be of interest to you.

Can you post a link? I'd be interested to read that.

lee · Dec 4, 2005

look here http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PyroPlus/pyroplus.html

it is a nice working formula

lee\c

nworth · Dec 4, 2005

Amidol used to be used mostly for bromide enlarging papers. Many feel that the more modern M-Q formulas are better. It was also used extensively as a film developer, where it has the benefits of no stain (at least that was a benefit 60 years ago) and low fog. Supply is another matter. I think it is still used in the dye industry, but less so than it used to be. The structure presets some nice functionality, so I expect it will be available as a fine chemical (at reagent prices) indefinitely. Actually, the price, adjusted for inflation, has only increased a little bit in the last 30 years.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 4, 2005

Whether amidol is better than something else for a particular purpose depends a great deal on the paper, and whether you want to use a water bath to control contrast.

Steve Anchell suggests that its "old style soft emulsions" that do best with amidol, and particularly recommended amidol for Cachet Expo, which is now sold as J&C Exposition graded and Efke Emaks, and in my experience with Smith's enlarging paper formula it does work better than other developers I've tried with this paper. By the same token, it doesn't seem to do much for Ilford Galerie or MGIV FB or RC.

Sandy King posted some interesting test results on the Azo forum a while back, comparing Ansco 130 to amidol (Smith's Azo formula), and he found he could get the same tonal range, but Ansco 130 wasn't as amenable to water bath treatment as amidol was.

To get the most out of the amidol I usually print any Azo prints I have to do at the beginning of the session, and then I add the requisite amount of KBr and benzotriazole to print enlargements on enlarging papers.

avandesande · Dec 4, 2005

It's made by the reduction of dinitrophenol, i think the usual way was with HCl and iron. As you can imagine this is a ugly reaction. I have found a much cleaner way, but as I mentioned buying the materials is difficult. I am not going to post it here as the Indians have already contacted me about how to do it.

I also want to see how the co-op works out, if it does it won't be worth my time. I would have to sell it for about 100-150$ a pound to make it worth my while, depending on how cheap I can get the raw materials. Dinitrophenol should be dirt cheap in bulk.

magic823 said:
How do you make it? I've found very little about it (manufacturing) searching the Internet.

Steve

Earl Dunbar · Dec 4, 2005

Sal Santamaura said:
If you really liked that combination, note that the last incarnation of Brilliant Bromide was rebranded Kentmere Bromide. You can use it again by ordering the current Kentmere. I've no affiliation with Kentmere or any other photo manufacturer/retailer; just a satisfied user. I used recent Brilliant Bromide with Photographers' Formulary BW-65, and am planning to try it and a few other developers with Kentmere.

Sal: Thanks for the tip. I haven't printed in quite a few years as I shut down my darkroom due to moves and other factors. So, I feel very out of touch with current papers, etc. I had planned on doing some research on current materials once I start up again, and appreciate your input.

Earl

Tom Hoskinson · Dec 4, 2005

With amidol I think there is likely a strong dependence on the way the specific paper reacts to it. I think you need to try it and see. In my own tests of Azo, I liked the MAS amidol recipe the best. I obtained Good results with Ansco 130, but still not as good as I got with amidol. Other developers I tried with azo included PPPD, Dektol and my TEA based variant of DS-14. None of these developers quite equaled the results I got with Ansco 130.

dancqu · Dec 4, 2005

nworth said:
The structure presets some nice functionality,
so I expect it will be available as a fine chemical
(at reagent prices) indefinitely. Actually, the price,
adjusted for inflation, has only increased a little
bit in the last 30 years.

So, no problem. Not that I'm surprised. Many
chemicals used in photography are used
otherwise.

Do you know the case with regards Glycine?
As I understand it P. Formulary compounds Glycine
on an as needed basis. I'd think the correct form for
photographic use would also be one of more
general commerce. Dan

And What of Amidol's Future?

James Bleifus

jim appleyard

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

User Removed

avandesande

Earl Dunbar

Peter Schrager

magic823

David A. Goldfarb

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Sal Santamaura

James Bleifus

c6h6o3

avandesande

James Bleifus

Tom Hoskinson

magic823

Donald Miller

jim appleyard

lee

nworth

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

avandesande

Earl Dunbar

Tom Hoskinson

dancqu

And What of Amidol's Future?

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