And more Yashica Mat shutter problems!

Rhythm Thief · Aug 30, 2014

So my elderly Yashica Mat, bought during an ebay session after a few beers, is still not working. When it arrived, the shutter wouldn't open at all: after I'd removed the front element of the lens and given the shutter blades a drop or two of lighter fluid, the shutter would open and close at all speeds, but as soon as the lighter fluid dried, it'd stick shut again. It would only work in the "x" position, too, and the self timer didn't work at all.
I removed the lens mounting plate and exposed the guts of the shutter mechanism. Soaking the whole thing overnight in lighter fluid helped, resulting in lots of tiny metal particles floating in the lighter fluid. I thought I'd cracked it then, as the shutter worked perfectly on "m" and "x" sync mode at all speeds, with only the self timer still not functioning. However, all of a sudden the shutter has started sticking open when it's fired. It'll cock ok, but won't shut after firing, until the shutter is cocked again. The local repair place I've just phoned up have told me they can't do anything with it and parts are impossible to get hold of.The only other thing I can think is that I've washed all the oil out of the mechanism, but I'm a bit wary of putting the wrong sort of oil in, or too much of the right sort ... any advice on that front would be welcome. Anyone got any other ideas? Anything else I can try? Anyone I could send it off to? I'd like to try and fix the thing, but at the moment this one is looking like a spares camera.

Chrismat · Aug 30, 2014

Sorry for the trouble you're having, are you in the States? Mark Hama is great with Yashicas. He used to assemble them for Yashica in Japan. If a spare part is needed he'll probably have it. Even if you aren't in the States, he's worth it.

http://www.markhama.com

Regards,
Chris

summicron1 · Aug 30, 2014

it is possible that some fluid still lurks in the crevases into which the blades go when they open up and are sticking there -- it might take a few days for all of it to evaporate.

More concerning is your mention of metal bits floating around -- that does not sound good. God knows where they came from, but if one of those is in a tiny place, wedged in there, you are looking at total tear-down.

bummer.

Rhythm Thief · Aug 30, 2014

Well, I figured that I might as well pull the thing to bits, since I'm not going to make it work any less well than it does at the moment! Currently got the self timer, speed regulator and flash sync units out on the bench, will try and get the shutter halves separated and the blades out in the next few days. But I think this one may be beyond my rather limited skills.

Rhythm Thief · Aug 30, 2014

Chris, I'm in the UK, but Mark Hama is the name I keep hearing in connection with Yashicas. I might look into what it would cost to send it to him.At least I'd end up with a camera I knew was right, and which would do me for several years.

pdeeh · Aug 30, 2014

Carriage both ways to and fromthe US plus the chance of getting charged excise duty + VAT on the way back (that's right,chargeable on services too, believe it or not) don't forget.

Cheaper alternatives will be John Quantick at Black on White in Bristol (he more or less restored mine beautifully for ~£90 and that included the buggered shutter) or of course NewtonEllis in Liverpool. Probably less if you just ask for the shutter to be done.

Hmm just seen you've already taken it to pieces. Repair people hate that

gone · Aug 30, 2014

The shutter issues on these cameras are what convinced me to go w/ something else. The self timer mechanism seems to have a design flaw, and woe to the person who sets it incorrectly. From what I've gleaned, disabling/removing the self timer mechanism is advisable and MAY get yours working. I don't recommend sending a $120 camera out for a $250 to $300 shutter service/CLA. That makes no sense on any level. If you can't get it going, buy another one that the seller guarantees is working properly, and figure a way to jimmy/remove the self timer lever so this doesn't pop up in the future.

Chrismat · Aug 30, 2014

I've had Mark cla a few Yashica tlrs for me, the last one a Yashicamat 124 last year. For a cla it's about $120-$150 US, not including shipping costs, but it could be more since the camera is already apart.

Rhythm Thief · Aug 30, 2014

pdeeh said:
Carriage both ways to and fromthe US plus the chance of getting charged excise duty + VAT on the way back (that's right,chargeable on services too, believe it or not) don't forget.

Cheaper alternatives will be John Quantick at Black on White in Bristol (he more or less restored mine beautifully for ~£90 and that included the buggered shutter) or of course NewtonEllis in Liverpool. Probably less if you just ask for the shutter to be done.

Bristol is easier than sending the thing off to the US, certainly. Local recommendations are useful, cheers.

Hmm just seen you've already taken it to pieces. Repair people hate that

I know . I can always put it back together again though.

Still not sure what to do with this - it might make more sense to break it for parts and start again with something else. All I've read about the Yashicas online indicates that they're great cameras when working, and if you've got a good one it'll last forever, but also that a good many of them have issues with the Copal shutter.

pdeeh · Aug 30, 2014

If you decide you want to replace it with a fully working one, drop me a PM, I might be persuaded to part with mine (though its a 124 not a 124G)

shutterfinger · Aug 30, 2014

Soaking in lighter fluid is great grand fathers solution from when shutters were all metal with no coatings. not a good solution for cameras/shutters made after the mid 1930's.

Search engine google, search term copal shutter repair manual, 8th hit on the first page http://ratfactor.com/yashica-d-tlr-copal-mxv-shutter ; your side of the planet may give different results.
Trace of oil on shafts and inside of bushings. Trace of grease where metal parts slide against the case and on spring legs at levers.
Watch/clock/gun oil, light to medium weight grease. I use TriFlow oil and white lithium grease.
Do it right.

jeztastic · Aug 30, 2014

Do not use the self timer in M mode, that immediately buggers the shutter. That's probably what did it for you second time round.

Rhythm Thief · Aug 31, 2014

jeztastic said:
Do not use the self timer in M mode, that immediately buggers the shutter. That's probably what did it for you second time round.

Wasn't that. It's impossible to move the self timer lever in "M" mode on the Yashica Mat, there's a little fence which pops up and prevents it moving.

Rhythm Thief · Aug 31, 2014

APUGuser19 said:
Agreed. You need to be taking a close look at the self-timer mechanism, which is easily extracted from the camera for examination. I believe you'll be finding a piece of flat spring-steel that has become bent. Work on straightening that out and it won't be "catching" as it turns. The naptha isn't going to help you. It only un-sticks sluggish or stuck shutters, it doesn't fix them.

Originally, that's what I thought I had! The shutter blades seemed to stick together, and a useful first step seemed to be to clean them up. It seemed to work at first, then as the naptha evaporated each time, the problem would recur. But upon removing the shutter cover, I could see that the problem was bigger than simply sticky shutter blades: some of the movement in the shutter speed mechanism seemed to stop working after a while, but it'd work again with another application of naptha. Now I've got all the component parts out of it (self timer, flash sync mechanism and shutter speed regulator) and I can have a look at each part in turn. It'd be nice to be able to get it working again.

Rhythm Thief · Sep 3, 2014

Just a quick update for anyone who is interested ... I've not given up on this yet! It's currently stripped right down on my workbench. All the shutter blades and shims are out and have been cleaned up with lighter fluid. There's a drop of watch oil for the parts that will need it when (if) I can get it back together again, which I will do when I'm not straight off a night shift. If it all goes wrong, at least I've learned a few things and had some fun, but I'm reasonably hopeful of fixing the thing. Thanks for all the help, I'll keep you updated.

gone · Sep 3, 2014

Lighter fluid is fine for all shutters (except a cloth focal plane of course). A metal leaf shutter is a metal leaf shutter. Never, ever had any problems w/ any shutter that I've cleaned w/ lighter fluid in 25 years, so that's not an issue. Please. There are no coatings in there that will be harmed by it. You can even put it on the glass, it just evaporates off. There's arm chair quarter backing, and there's actual experience. Even Paul Ebel told me he uses lighter fluid. Just be careful on shutters that have fiber/plastic aperture blades, but you know, lighter fluid is kept in a plastic container, so....

Unfortunately, it sounds like yours has more problems that that. Good luck w/ it. By the way, nearly all of these leaf shutters will run dry just fine. They don't stick due to lack of oil, they stick due to gunk or a broken/jammed part.

Rhythm Thief · Sep 3, 2014

I'll see what happens. The nice thing about stuff being broken is that you might as well have a go at fixing it, since you're not going to make it work any less well than it already does!

shutterfinger · Sep 3, 2014

Ilex shutters use hard rubber shutter blades. Lighter fluid turns them to sticky goo quickly. Lighter fluid leaves an oily residue. There are many types of plastic, they react differently to solvents.
There are better solvents for parts cleaning.

camtec · Sep 4, 2014

The self timer mechanism is a PITA. I used to flush clean the shutter with electronics parts cleaner.. Just remove the front lens group and give the shutter a good spray cleaning. Don't even bother with the self timer. Toss it. Most of the malfunctions with the Yashica TLRs are the result of the self timer; at least that is my experience. BTW, use a cleaner that leaves no residue and dry it with a hair dryer. The rear lens group can be cleaned simply by locking the shutter on bulb and using regular lens cleaning technique. No need to disassemble.

Rhythm Thief · Sep 4, 2014

camtec said:
No need to disassemble.

Too late for that, I fear ...

moltogordo · Sep 8, 2014

Would Mark Hama or any of these others be likely to work on my Primo Jr? I live in Northern BC and have no access to repairmen at all.

MattKing · Sep 8, 2014

moltogordo said:
Would Mark Hama or any of these others be likely to work on my Primo Jr? I live in Northern BC and have no access to repairmen at all.

I would contact Horst Wenzel and ask him if he works on them: http://www.canada411.ca/res/6042635820/Horst-Wenzel/194220690.html

Rhythm Thief · Sep 10, 2014

Well, it's still in many many pieces. I did get it back together after cleaning each shutter leaf and shim individually while removed from the camera, and I thought I'd fixed it: it worked a treat until I put the shutter mechanism back onto the base plate, at which point it started sticking shut again. Or open, it depended what mood it was in. As well as that, a new problem reared its head and the aperture blades began sticking and would only close if you backed off the tension and started again. So I've dismantled it even beyond the point in Ratfactor's pictures and have now got all the aperture blades out on the bench ready for cleaning. I really would like to get this working now, even though I know I'll never be able to have any confidence that it'll work when I want it to. At least I've learned a lot about how hte thing works, or at least how it would work if it did.

Rhythm Thief · Sep 12, 2014

Found this link ... Dead Link Removed ... which carries on from where Ratfactor left off.

jaz1943 · Sep 13, 2014

I have a mint condition YASHHICA MAT 124G for sale for $250. Also some recent, very sharp photos to share. VAT on a parts camera shouldn't be too ba.....

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And more Yashica Mat shutter problems!

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