and how do we keep it around ...

is there anything nowadays that is considered "the best film" or "the best paper"?
i know it is a personal choice what one likes to use, some don't rc and swear by it, some like graded or vc fiber,
european films( that others say are prone to problems ), or american films (that these days seem to have
a trail of issues following them) .

in the 80s, it was said that blue box oriental graded paper was the best you could get
and tri x and d76 was touted as the gold standard ( at least for some folks ) .

what is it now, is it just a matter of brand loyalty ?

and aside from shooting more ourselves, or wrongheaded/misguided hoarding, how do
we make sure these "best" products stay around? do we all lend friends and family film cameras
and say "shoot, i'll process / print it since you don't know how and its a PITA to send our or no labs are left "

is it a re-conversion thing we have to do? find people who used to do it
and convince them to start doing it again ? i was out yesterday and a lady stopped me who i had talked to about 5 months ago. she recognized me with a camera
( the last time it was a giant camera, this time it was a small one ) and said she wanted to start using film again, but it had been too long and she wasn't sure if she could do it, but she knew
how great the quality and experience was ...

jnanian said:

do we all lend friends and family film cameras
and say "shoot, i'll process / print it since you don't know how and its a PITA to send our or no labs are left "

Click to expand...

About 5 years ago, I was talking to a gallery owner about the photography portfolios she had been seeing. I had a few shows at her gallery, but she said I was one of the few who worked with film. She thought 90-95% of what she saw was digital. I had an idea to curate a show, where I would give digital photographers loaded Dianas, with brief instructions, which I would develop for them. They would then be given contact sheets, pick a few, and I would print them (they would be offered the chance to be in the darkroom, to "direct" the printing). Between us, we talked to about 20 photographers. Interest was low... I still think it's a good concept.

eddie said:

About 5 years ago, I was talking to a gallery owner about the photography portfolios she had been seeing. I had a few shows at her gallery, but she said I was one of the few who worked with film. She thought 90-95% of what she saw was digital. I had an idea to curate a show, where I would give digital photographers loaded Dianas, with brief instructions, which I would develop for them. They would then be given contact sheets, pick a few, and I would print them (they would be offered the chance to be in the darkroom, to "direct" the printing). Between us, we talked to about 20 photographers. Interest was low... I still think it's a good concept.

Click to expand...

Interesting.

I had a similar idea a few years back, having a photo contest of sorts. The contestants each would get a disposable camera, then they would get "turned loose" in a given situation or locale for a few hours or a week. The cameras would be gathered up and processed at a pre-appointed time. The winner would get some prize.

The cost of entry would be enough to cover the disposable, the processing, and a few bucks extra to cover the cost of the prizes.

The thought is kinda, "think your good? prove it where you don't have a technical advantage."

jnanian said:

is there anything nowadays that is considered "the best film" or "the best paper"?
i know it is a personal choice what one likes to use, some don't rc and swear by it, some like graded or vc fiber,
european films( that others say are prone to problems ), or american films (that these days seem to have
a trail of issues following them) .

in the 80s, it was said that blue box oriental graded paper was the best you could get
and tri x and d76 was touted as the gold standard ( at least for some folks ) .

what is it now, is it just a matter of brand loyalty ?

and aside from shooting more ourselves, or wrongheaded/misguided hoarding, how do
we make sure these "best" products stay around? do we all lend friends and family film cameras
and say "shoot, i'll process / print it since you don't know how and its a PITA to send our or no labs are left "

is it a re-conversion thing we have to do? find people who used to do it
and convince them to start doing it again ? i was out yesterday and a lady stopped me who i had talked to about 5 months ago. she recognized me with a camera
( the last time it was a giant camera, this time it was a small one ) and said she wanted to start using film again, but it had been too long and she wasn't sure if she could do it, but she knew
how great the quality and experience was ...

Click to expand...

For me it still is a matter of brand loyalty when the brand/product is one I know I work well with. But I'm in the fortunate position of having near-immediate access to almost every film still available. As time goes on (or if circumstances change and access to film options becomes diminished) it will likely become a matter of whatever is available that has a reasonable chance of working.

Likewise with labs, which I use exclusively. Again... I'm fortunate to still have access to good film labs - some for personal interaction and others for mail-order. The price is a lot higher than in the past but those services are still available. When they cease to exist I will do the inevitable and buy a digital camera. For the time being, though, I'm still too thrifty to replace the gear I have that still works and gives me what I want.

markbarendt said:

Interesting.

I had a similar idea a few years back, having a photo contest of sorts. The contestants each would get a disposable camera, then they would get "turned loose" in a given situation or locale for a few hours or a week. The cameras would be gathered up and processed at a pre-appointed time. The winner would get some prize.

The cost of entry would be enough to cover the disposable, the processing, and a few bucks extra to cover the cost of the prizes.

The thought is kinda, "think your good? prove it where you don't have a technical advantage."

Click to expand...

That's the only thing that would keep me from participating in an otherwise great idea.

The concept is fun. My wife and I did similar years ago when we got married: disposable cameras on every table for the guest to use. Interesting results... a lot of crap and a few good ones. (We're still trying to figure out who did the upskirts, though.)

TMY-2 is the best film available. Once my freezer stash runs out, that's it though because I can't afford or justify paying $10+ a sheet.
Kentmere Finegrain glossy fiber too.

I agree with wildbill technically TMY-2 is the best current B/W film but regarding the paper I hate glossy surfaces with a passion and think that it is unsuitable for a large percentage of my work. So I can't consider any Glossy B/W paper the best. I am quiet fond of Fomabrom paper Variant 112. The problem is and always was that different photographer have different needs also regarding Seagull it was more the prefered paper of the Landscape crowd and less so for the portrait crowd again different needs. One size be it film or paper fits all doesn't exist. The advantageof digital prints is the huge choice of paper surfaces compared to the minuscule choice with classic B/W paper. That said I still prefer the results I get from mat FB paper.

As for how to promote the use of the best products it's simple keep using them and show the results around some of the people you'll show them to might get interested in getting the same or similiar results. That's how the whole faux Holga, Polaroid, etc things started people wanted to get the look. On a smart phone mind you but some of them would like to hang their pix on the wall

eddie said:

Between us, we talked to about 20 photographers. Interest was low... I still think it's a good concept.

Click to expand...

I wonder if you'd have better luck today than five years ago. I think this is a wonderful idea, and I expect that around my area, you'd be able to find a fist-full of photographers and other graphic artists who would love to do that.
While it changes things a bit, I'm sure many would prefer something slightly more complicated than a Holga. I'm continuously surprised by how many talented photographers I meet have a (at best) basic understand of exposure. Giving them something more automated with some of the controls they are used to (90s AF SLR would suffice, such as an EOS ELAN or Nikon F80) would probably have a higher uptake, at least amongst the people in my area.

To jnanian, for me at least, there is no best film. Between roughly comparable films (such as TMAX and Delta; Tri-X, HP5+, and Kentmere) by the time I'm done with a print, I can't tell you which film stock it came from, and I can get acceptable results from all of them. It may very well be that one is better (certainly Ilford believes HP5+ is better than Kentmere), but when it is all said and printed, I find the differences subtle and over-shadowed by other descisions. So I buy a wide range of film. Some days I load my film based on the subject I want to photograph. Some days I chose what to photograph based on the film that is loaded in my camera. And some days those two don't line up and I do what I can to arrange things so the asthetic of the film (and developer - I always chose what film speed and development process I'll use before I load film into a camera) works with the asthetic of the image I make.

I'm content to shoot a wide range of films and my brand loyalty (which certainly does factor into which films I buy) is largely based on who I think is going to stick around and what specialty films they make that I want to keep seeing (Ilford and Maco/Rollei are currently nicely entrenched in my good books).
Oh, wait, there is one best film. Kodak Porta 400 is the best colour film. I'll raise a tear-soaked glass of Scotch when that one dies.

BrianShaw said:

That's the only thing that would keep me from participating in an otherwise great idea.

The concept is fun. My wife and I did similar years ago when we got married: disposable cameras on every table for the guest to use. Interesting results... a lot of crap and a few good ones. (We're still trying to figure out who did the upskirts, though.)

Click to expand...

Giggle.

In a contest like that, the judging would need to discount exposure errors. Things like that are a great exercise though.