analyser recommendation required

eagleowl

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
127
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
I'm an experienced bw darkroom enthusiast,but now I've decided to get into colour as well.
I don't want to waste time and paper producing test strips to determine the filter settings to get the colour looking right,so I want to buy an analyser.
My budget is £450-any recommendations,and where can I get them in the UK?
 

Nick Zentena

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
4,666
Location
Italia
Format
Multi Format
No idea how hard/easy to find in the UK.

Colorstar 3000 works a treat. Used far less then your budget. I bought one for less then $70 a few years back. The newer Colorstar 7000 or the Jobo Colorlines [5000,5100?? something like that] should be fine also.

OTOH I'd suggest learning to do it the hard way first. It does take a certain understanding of the process to use the analyzers well. Once you've got to the point that you can get good basic prints then everything from programming the analyzer to choosing the points to analyze will be much easier.
 

hka

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
397
Format
Multi Format
I can recommend you the Colorstar 3000 analyser. As Nick said you must invest some time to get the best out of it...
Look at ebay or other e-markets.
 

Mike Wilde

Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
2,903
Location
Misissauaga
Format
Multi Format
seconding Nick's recommendation

The ability to judge colour is a fine art to be learned with experience, a good white light source, and a kit of print viewing filters.

But then I *bay'ed a new colorstar 3000 - the older 8 channel verson, which does me fine. Mine came from a shop in Portugal, for about $300CAN and I was fearless enough to pull it apart and change the jumper settings to make the 120/240 transformer work at 120V, my local voltage level. Then I changed the power plug and socket and I was in business.

The ability of the colorstar from one (or somtimes two) test prints to auto compensate all of its previously established programmed channels for paper drift, chemistry drift, and bulb aging drift for me makes it worth its weight in gold, since I do not print huge lots of colur at any one time.

Once the analyser if dialled in, its probe must be positioned by a user with a thinking mind. The anayser will not make you necessariuly think less. It does , for me, usually mean that I am at a finished print in at most 3 iterations. This is far less iterations than before I ran an analyser.

Even if I totally disagree and dial in different filters than it suggests, it can still keep the time adjustments due to different filter densities automatically tracked for me. Then I can override the automatic time if that is what I think will work best. All rounda great piece of kit.
 

srs5694

Member
Joined
May 18, 2005
Messages
2,718
Location
Woonsocket,
Format
35mm
Others have provided useful comments. I'll add my perspective from the low end. I've got a Beseler PM2 (I think that's the one -- I don't want to go check the exact model number), which is a low-end unit I bought used on eBay, probably for under $50. I'm sure it's nowhere near as good as the Colorstar models others have mentioned. In any event, the Beseler usually gives me a value that's within about 10cc of what I finally use, which is of course better than guessing randomly, but not better than using the values from another roll of the same type of film processed in the same way. That is to say, if I'm printing from a roll of Kodak Gold 200 processed in Paterson Photocolor II developer, I can do as well using the values I used on the last roll of Kodak Gold 200 processed in Paterson Photocolor II developer. Personally, I've got a wide enough selection of films in my collection that the analyzer is still very useful, but if you're very loyal to one brand, an analyzer might not be as useful to you.

Also, any analyzer will only be useful if you stick with a limited selection of papers and chemicals; if you change brands of paper or chemicals for every other print, the analyzer won't do you much good. Thus, I recommend you pick a brand of paper and a brand of chemicals and stick with them while you learn.

In order to use an analyzer, you'll first need to make a "perfect" print to calibrate the unit. This can be frustrating when you're first starting; just plan on spending a while fiddling with your settings to get it right. In addition to the color print-viewing filters that Mike mentioned, other tools and techniques can be useful. You'll find color ring-around reference charts in books, for instance.

I use a "test print" frame, which is a frame with removable rectangles of varying sizes. For test prints, I use eight 3.5"x2.5" squares. I use two to vary exposure (printing two exposures in each, for four total exposure tests) and the remaining six to vary the cyan, magenta, and yellow filtration up and down. (I find I need to use cyan filtration, and increased magenta and yellow filtration, as an equivalent to neutral density filtration to get reasonable exposure times with modern color papers, particularly for small prints.) I shift the frame between test-print exposures, so that each 3.5"x2.5" rectangle shows the same part of the print. This procedure can help a lot. If your initial values are close to correct, you'll see distinct cyan, magenta, yellow, red, green, and blue casts to the six color test patches. If your initial value is way off, all the test patches will seem to be off in the same way (all too red, say). If the exposure time is off, everything will be too dark or too light, which makes it hard to judge color; a fresh test print is thus in order. (Fortunately, my analyzer usually gives me reasonable overall exposure values, so I can use my exposure tests for fine-tuning over a relatively small range.)
 
OP
OP

eagleowl

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
127
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
Thanks for the advice.
I've found a new colorstar 3000 listed on a website,but they don't list the price!
I've e~mailed them asking the price,so hopefully I'll get a reply soon.
I've also seen a new analyser made by Kunze(whom I've never heard of),which is half my budget.
The one I'd love to own is a Kaiser,which is WAY outside my budget!!!
I do stick to one brand of film-albeit 2 speeds and 2 formats-and one developer.
 

pentaxuser

Member
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
20,108
Location
Daventry, No
Format
35mm

Two Colourstar 3000s listed at Ffordes right now. The almost new one is just under £200.

pentaxuser
 

jeroldharter

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Messages
1,955
Location
Wisconsin
Format
4x5 Format
I use a Jobo 5000 and used to use it for Cibachrome printing. It worked great. Once I got the filter pack right for color balance, I could make a good print with no testing. You can store up to 100 channels for green grass, blue sky, etc. I basically used it to zero in on the filter pack which stayed the same print to print with only minor variations. For print exposure times, I would just use the probe to find a zone V value, adjust the aperture of the lens to null the analyzer, and use the indicated exposure time. The Jobo is a timer also. I don't think it is intuitive to use - takes some practice. But once you are used to it things get easier. Only the newer Jobo 7000 models have footswitch capability for the timer.
 

Mick Fagan

Subscriber
Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Messages
4,429
Location
Melbourne Au
Format
Multi Format
I have been printing colour for a long time, firstly in my own darkroom, then in an industrial photo lab, finally again in my own darkroom.

I have seen and used many different analysers and owned quite a few myself. The best and cheapest method to get correct colour that I know of, is the Mitchell “COLORBRATOR”.

The Mitchell colorbrator was invented by the Late Bob Mitchell, an American, I believe that he was the driving force behind Unicolor being so good many years ago.

Bob’s invention is quite simple, he supplies you with a colour negative you place in your enlarger, you follow his instructions regarding exposing a piece of 8x10” colour paper, then use the supplied grey finder card to find the grey reference square. You then place your analyser probe under the correct coloured grey square and set your analyser to this reference. Various analysers use different methods to do this.

From this you can then determine the correct colour settings for your enlarger with that batch of paper and processing technique.

There is also a grey scale surrounding three sides of the negative, this will give you a density reference as to how light or too dark your test print has been.

This is something you have to do, to set-up your darkroom for very good colour balance and density.

Out in the field you need to take a picture of a grey object, as a reference negative for every different light situation.

This can be done in various ways; the simplest way is to use Bob Mitchell’s GRAY KEY, which attaches to a key ring. You simply take a picture of the gray key in the light you intend to photograph in, then fire away to your hearts content.

Once back in the darkroom you place your gray key negative in the enlarger, place the analyser probe under that, then you simply adjust the colour dials on the enlarger so that the analyser is happy. You then have correct, or should have correct colour balance. Density is another matter and I won’t go into that here but it is easier to understand once you start printing.

The best colour analysers I know of and actually use as well, is/are the color star range that comprise, color star 1000/2000 and 3000 analysers. There are others but I haven’t used them. These colour analysers are unique in that they analyse all three colour channels at once, this makes life extremely simple and quick in the darkroom.

I personally use the original Color star analyser, it is the first and the least specified colour analyser of the range, but it is no different from the others, in that it can and will give you, a very good reference print from go, if set up correctly!

Colour printing isn’t hard, getting colour that you like is a bit hard; getting colour that others like is a bit harder. There is no correct colour, just colour that is acceptable.

I purchased my Mitchell COLORBRATOR from Bob Mitchell in 1996, it didn’t totally transform my way of printing colour, but it made life terribly easier in the colour darkroom.

Another way to get perfect grey coloured reference negatives is to use the “Wallace Expo/disc”. These are making a comeback due to the electronic imaging machines having a fair bit of difficulty in getting a correct white balance setting.

I pop an Expo/Disc on the end of the lens, point the camera at the light source, put the camera onto automatic, then press the shutter.

I then fire away at will, in the knowledge that I have a very accurate grey colour reference for my analyser, which as a matter of fact also contains correct density measurements as a bonus.

When you do start colour printing you will find a multitude of ways to get the same effect, one of the interesting things you should notice is that you will find three coloured filters in your colour head, you will only use two of them. Do search on this forum, as there are quite a few good pieces of information in them.

Generally with colour negative printing you will use Magenta and Yellow, the Cyan isn’t used. Adding Magenta will increase Green, reducing will reduce Green. Adding Yellow will increase blue, reducing will reduce Blue.

When you get very close to correct colour, you will find that adding density will increase red, reducing density will increase Cyan. This means that if you have a slightly dark print, which looks a tiny bit reddish then just reduce the exposure (density) of the print without making colour adjustments. In most cases you will find that the slight Red colour cast disappears with the lighter print. Experience will tell when and how quickly/slowly this happens.

Eventually you will find that you will not use an analyser as you will have a very good idea of settings required. I myself only use an analyser if I'm shooting under awkward light and know I'll have good colour if I shoot a reference negative then use my analyser.

The most consistent colour paper is from Kodak. Batch to batch, year to year, their paper has remained consistent. Fuji are reasonable but I don't like their colour pallette as much as the normal Kodak colour paper.

Mick.
 

Fotohuis

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
810
Location
Netherlands
Format
Medium Format
If you want a real full auto color analyzer which is still fully supported you should look at the FEM Kunze CFL-4012 analyzer with positive densito unit AD2000.
In a few cycles you have an automatic calibration procedure. 60 channels and a one step measurement for color and exposure.

FEM-Kunze is a part of the former Wallner factory.
You can find them on line:
http://www.fem-kunze.com/deutschv/index_d.html

and via the phone which is for Mr. Kunze the best way to comminicate to get the best information.
Unfortunately the company is less international orientated but their analyzers are really top preformance and still very popular in Germany.
 

Nick Zentena

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
4,666
Location
Italia
Format
Multi Format

Within reason the Colorstars get away from both this. The intial 3000 held data for up to 8 papers the newer one 100 papers. So you could switch papers and even chemicals almost on a whim.

They also don't require a perfect print to calibrate. You use a greycard 18% negative. A test strip when dried is put into the analyzer and it adjusts itself. You do this a few times until it's calibrated. It's easier if you get close to the grey print to begine with but if not it'll just take a little longer. You can [and likely should] use this to adjust the calibration during the life of your chemicals. Usually half way in the life of the chemicals I'll make a new grey print test strip and let the unit recalibrate it self. This way slight changes in the chemicals are corrected for.
 
OP
OP

eagleowl

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
127
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
Hi fotohuis.
Thanks for the link,unfortunately I don't speak German,and the English version is listed as "coming soon".
 

Fotohuis

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
810
Location
Netherlands
Format
Medium Format
Without German I suppose you can still read the specs.
The CFL-4012 has the same advanced possibility as the Colorstar 3000 with the self calibration and correction during the time of processing. (AD2000 feature)

The menu in the analyser can be changed through different languages (also English).
Additional the AD2000 for auto calibration and a 2mm probe for B&W work is also available.
All advanced FEM-Kunze analysers are measuring via the cosphi correction, so the darkroom light stays on during measurement which is necessary when working with the color sodium light sources.
 
OP
OP

eagleowl

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2004
Messages
127
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
got one

Thanks everyone for the advice.
In the end,I bought a new Kunze ca100,with a set of print viewing cards to calibrate it.
 

Fotohuis

Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2004
Messages
810
Location
Netherlands
Format
Medium Format
OK, a quick overview:
CFL-4012 (Eur. 487) ; CA100 (Eur. 152)

Multi channel (60), Single channel (1)
One measurement 5 mm probe, 3 channel (YMC) 5mm probe
3 mm B&W probe option (also densito C+B&W , --
Modes: time, color, color+time ; color, time
cosphi measurement , cosphi measurement
auto calibration mode , --
Range: 50 lux till 0,003 lux , 50 lux till 0,005 lux
Log D measurement: 0 - 4,5 logD , --
Average measurement: Time + color 12 point , just one
Display: LCD, LED red 13mm
RS232 , --

About the Colorstar model 3000 I can not tell you so much.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…