Analog Photography Makes a Comeback

faberryman

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So he lost me when he said that choosing film or digital is a lifestyle choice. So what is he talking about? I shot film for decades, then about ten years ago I started shooting digital too. So now I shoot film and digital. Maybe some day I'll just shoot digital. I make analog prints and digital prints and alternative process prints. As best as I can tell, my lifestyle hasn't changed, so I must be missing out on something. Since this is an analog thread, best not mention anything about the digital lifestyle. Tell me all about the film lifestyle.
 
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removed account4

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Interesting if you have the time to watch. Not sure I agree with everything, but a point of view of someone in the industry.
he was pretty funny, Im not a fan of fast cut editing can't stand that.
he's right though. there are a lot of people who have no idea what they are talking about.
and its always the people who are self proclaimed experts in any field.
 
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BradS

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The guy is so full of himself it is nauseating.
 
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BradS

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He has a point of view. You don't have to agree.

It's really not about agreeing or disagreeing. It about his self aggrandizing. A little humility would go a long way.
 
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DREW WILEY

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I'm pretty much settled into film and real darkroom only, with respect to both color and black and white. It's where I'm comfortable. If someone else has migrated to the non-dark-side, or even commutes in between, and that is what they prefer, no crime committed. But there are other ways in which I'm a photographic schizophrenic, especially with respect to which format to use on a particular outing. Some of it is whim related, but mostly logistical instead, depending on the weather and subject matter. Right now I'm going nuts following the weather forecasts so I can be appropriately equipped when I zip past Brad's neck of the woods and upon over the high passes before they snow shut for the season. And I suspect that lower down there will be some lovely Godfather-movie-look light, due to lingering smoke haze. I just wanna be properly equipped for whatever, but obviously can't bring too much gear along; need to be efficient - that's important too.
 

Pieter12

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It's really not about agreeing or disagreeing. It about his self aggrandizing. A little humility would go a long way.
Yes, he can be over-the-top. But his message, although sometimes a bit convoluted, is interesting. Here he goes on about TriX and TMax (you know his personality--don't watch it if he upsets you):
 

BradS

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Yes, he can be over-the-top. But his message, although sometimes a bit convoluted, is interesting. Here he goes on about TriX and TMax (you know his personality--don't watch it if he upsets you):

I really don't give a rats ass what this conceited, self absorbed jerk has to say about anything.
 
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logan2z

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I really don't give a rats ass what this conceited, self absorbed jerk has to say about anything.
Wow, he really has rubbed you the wrong way

The first time I watched one of his videos I got about two minutes in and had to turn it off. His Type AAAAA personality and verbal diarrhea type of delivery was more than I could take. But I have found some of his videos entertaining and thought provoking, especially when it comes to the topic of self publishing (he's been an 'Evangelist' for Blurb for the past decade) .

If you can grit your teeth long enough to watch some of his videos, I think you'll find him pretty self-deprecating, and he is quick to admit that he's 'one person with one opinion' and that nothing he says should be taken as gospel. He also talks about his career as a documentary photographer pretty openly and freely admits that it was kind of mediocre, so I don't think he's quite as conceited as he seems at first blush. He is one of the few guys on YouTube who actually talks about photography and doesn't just drone on about camera gear, so I'll give him props for that.
 

removed account4

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maybe the lifestyle choice he mentions is that well, you shoot film, you are sometimes stingy with your exposure, you like the anticipation, you like the look of film, you have the $$ to spend on film and paper and if you don't use a lab ( because you are really busy like him ) you have the time and space for a darkroom. whether it is something you have been doing for 30 or 20 or 10 or 40 years it is a way of life that people with no film and darkroom experience, don't have. their lifestyle choice is doing what comes natural to them, shooting lots to pare down / edit later, and spending time in their light room the way they like to do. both have their benefits. He did say that people with a background in film photography bring their film-lifestyle with them when they shoot with a digital camera, you pretty much said that is what you do. YMMV of course
 

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I've had darkrooms for about 50 years so, for me, analogue has never left. I do think digital has advanced by leaps and bounds since it was first introduced. I still don't do any digital because it's not the way I prefer to create my images. ( Last year, I had digital color prints made for the first time. I had sold about 6 20x24's of the same image. Once the paper surface was matched, it closely matched my analogue reference print).
Rather than the digital-analogue war, we should acknowledge the contributions digital has made to the analogue world. Obviously, it allows film shooters without darkroom access to image making. I think the biggest, and longest lasting, contribution is in alternative processes. The digital negative has led to a resurgence in contact printing processes, which would most likely be nearly extinct without digital advancements.
 

faberryman

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For most of us, photography is a hobby, not a lifestyle. Is choosing between stamp collecting and coin collecting really a lifestyle choice? Only a tiny fraction of film shooters work in the darkroom. The choice between digital and film is that with digital, you can start monkeying around with your images in PS and posting them to Instagram immediately, and with film you have to wait a week to get your scans back from the film processor before you can start monkeying around with your images in PS and posting them to Instagram. Is it really a lifestyle choice to choose to wait a week because you like the look of film. It sounds like a lot of nonsense to me. And I shoot film.
 
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removed account4

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. maybe to you it is nonsense because to you there really is no choice. but for others it is wrapped up in the image they want to project to the world at large who sees them online? its obvious you aren't cultivating digital and public persona ... perhaps this lifestyle choice has to do with that all engrossing internet identity that people of a certain age cultivate so they stand out against every other person online. Like people wandering around with camera bling in public spaces so people see their Leica or hassy, or people I knew in college who would carry around certain books ( that they never opened ) so people would think they were well read.

regarding coin and stamp collecting, I think it depends how deep someone is into their hobby because there are certainly people who like shutterbugs, eat sleep and drink everything that has to do with their hobby, from going to public, private and estate auctions, shows, to archaeological digs, to planning vacations around visitations to places seen on stamps and sites where there may be artifacts or history related to their hobby. personally I was upset when the uspo did the re-issue of the inverted Jenny stamp and it wasn't upside down.
 

faberryman

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I think this is close to hitting the nail on the head. Perhaps shooting film is like wearing bell bottoms and granny glasses. Wearing bell bottoms and granny glasses was never about the intrinsic qualities of bell bottoms and granny glasses. And it took much more than wearing bell bottoms and granny glasses to constitute a lifestyle. Think about all those people who were going through mid-life crises who were wearing bell bottoms and granny glasses. They weren't exactly groovy, if you know what I mean.
 
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BradS

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It's really a shame. I wish he'd tone down the self aggrandizing a bit. He has some helpful and interesting (and occasionally refreshingly unique) insights.
 

Nicholas Lindan

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He has some helpful and interesting (and occasionally refreshingly unique) insights.

But sitting through all that to find them is a PITA and doesn't do my blood pressure any good.

I once had a very long-winded employee. His former boss gave me this advice: "Tell Sam - 'Give it to me in 3 words or less.'"
 

warden

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Yes, he can be over-the-top. But his message, although sometimes a bit convoluted, is interesting. Here he goes on about TriX and TMax (you know his personality--don't watch it if he upsets you):
I've never heard of him so thanks for the heads up. I don't mind his personality I suppose, but this feels like ten minutes of content delivered over a half hour. I actually lol'd when he said it was mandatory to split grade print P3200. Near the end he said "let me recap", and I said please lord, no, just no.
 

Pieter12

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It's amazing how riled up some of you can get over a hyper, self-centered and opinionated individual. No one forced you to watch anything, his personality comes across right off the bat. For me, what information he does offer is something you don't get much of elsewhere--certainly not from most videos online that will put you to sleep in the first 15 seconds. He talks from his experience and his preferences in the real world that he works in.
 

BradS

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unfortunately, his persistent, underlying, implicit message is, "worship me".

...and that message completely drowns out whatever else he may be explicitly saying.

message received, and rejected.
 
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Nicholas Lindan

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It's amazing how riled up some of you can get over ...

Some days you just have to get riled up about something. And some people are just so obliging in providing that something. I suppose you can get riled up about how people get all riled up.

Best to just sit on the floor and chant "Om mani padme hum." I mean this isn't about something really important like stop-baths.
 

faberryman

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I like that he is enthusiastic, but honestly, I could only listen to him for seven to eight minutes and then take a break, and listen to him for seven or eight minutes and take a break, etc. Probably says more about me than him.

There were a couple of other things that I thought were a little off the wall besides the lifestyle thing. He said he shot this assignment, and he submitted images both from his 5D and presumably his Leica to his agency, which oh by the way is the best agency and represents only the best photographers. He said that he went back and forth with the agency for months about problems with his 5D files and there were 22 things they had to fix, but his film shots were perfect. So he saw the light and went back to shooting film exclusively. I would note that the 5D was introduced in 2005. I wonder if digital cameras have improved? So that sounded to me like an old story which he has repeated so often is just pops out of his mouth whenever he starts talking about film. I know I sometimes have to catch myself so I don't repeat the same old thing over and over. I can just hear an exchange between you and someone else about your choice to shoot film, where you say you shoot film because some expert on YouTube told you digital sucked in 2005. There are a lot of good reasons to shoot film; digital sucking in 2005 is not one of them.

The other thing that sort of got me was when he said people who shoot digital always bring up all the limitations of film, like you only have 36 exposures, and you can't change the ASA mid-roll, and whatnot, but that it is actually those limitations which make film great because they force you "to use your fucking brain". My take on this is that if you need to have a lot of external constraints on you in order "to use your fucking brain", then maybe you have some other issues to might want to work on. This is like the old trope that analog slows you down which film enthusiasts like to trot out pretty regularly, as if it is some sort of aspect of human nature that when someone hands you a digital camera you are completely powerless to do anything other than spray and pray. I tend to shoot conservatively with digital because I don't want have to review and edit a thousand shots of the same thing even if they are free. But I guess if you can't help yourself and are simply unable to control your behavior, then maybe film is the solution. The thing is a lot of film enthusiasts have motor drives for their film cameras, which sort of indicates that maybe this tendency to overshoot is more like a personality trait than an intrinsic quality of digital. Personally, I just have a winder which I never use because in my experience the decisive moment usually occurs sometime between frames no matter how fast the winder or motor drive goes. Besides, a winder or motor drive adds bulk and weight to the camera. About the only upside of a winder or motor drive is that it makes that mechanical whirring noise so you you can pretend you are David Hemmings straddling that model in Blowup. Speaking of Blowup, my takeaway from that movie is that if you are taking pictures in a park, you should be shooting Panatomic-X, but I guess that wouldn't have made much of a movie.

And then the killer comment he made was something to the effect that if you are talking about the process of making photographs rather than the photographs themselves you are an amateur. So I thought that was pretty ironic in light of the fact that all 34:57 of the video was about process and he never showed us a photo, although he did show us his Leica and his Hasselblad. I think, but am not certain, that he said his Leica was an M4*, but I am certain that he told us that his Hasselblad was a 503CW, and that it took a digital back. Why he told us his Hasselblad 503CW took a digital back when he was telling us all about why shooting film is so great is a head scratcher to me. But obviously if he has a Leica and a Hasselblad he is a real photographer and knows what he is talking about.

So anyway, on the whole, I enjoyed the video and obviously the guy likes what he does, and likes to tell you about it. Nothing wrong with that. You sure wouldn't want to listen to a guy go on and on for a half an hour or so about something he was ambivalent about. Of course, there is a fine line between being enthusiastic and sounding like you are selling a veg-a-matic. I think he navigated that aspect pretty well. And irrespective of his views on film and digital, he seems like a very creative guy.

* In the next video he confirms that his Leica is an M4 "German, black paint, first batch". I mean he didn't want us to be confused and think he was shooting a Leica made in Canada or anything, because everyone knows the only thing worse than shooting digital is shooting film with a Leica made in Canada. This is when he says he likes the simplicity of going into the field with his Leica and a plastic box of film in a mesh thong Speedo**, as opposed to the fire drill of going into the field with an XT4*** with a booster, all the lenses. two XT2s, a Sony ZV1, a GoPro, two audio recorders, and a drone. I don't know why he is taking all that digital stuff into the field. I thought he shot film. If you are going to lower yourself to shooting digital, I'd suggest the simplicity of taking just an XT4 without a booster into the field and leaving the plastic box of film and mesh thong Speedo at home. But, as he says: "It's nice to not be able to see what you are doing." Seems to me like he should be shooting a Leica MDa.

** I recommend that you not Google "mesh thong Speedo".

*** Extra credit if anyone can explain how he makes "films" for YouTube with his XT4.
 
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Nicholas Lindan

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You sure wouldn't want to listen to a guy go on and on for a half an hour or so about something he was ambivalent about.

Freud said that full understanding was accompanied by a deep ambivalence. (I guess Freud was never ambivalent...)

"...listen to a guy go on and on for a half an hour or so about something he was ambivalent about." Hmmm, reminds me of my education. The prof. usually had a deep understanding of the subject matter, a deep ambivalence to it, and a wet dish-rag style of presentation. That's life, I suppose.

I had only one teacher who made the effort to approach the subject matter with some verve. "And that's how you do it!" he would shout and hit the blackboard with enough force that chalk dust puffed out from all the seams. It was high school algebra, so there wasn't much of a dichotomy about methodology. I suppose you could make a case: pi Vs 3.1415; e Vs 2.7182; sqrt(2) Vs 1.4142. In the end, in a practical sense, you want the numeric result.

Don't mind my rambling -- I'm just doing anything to postpone cleaning out the gutters. Maybe I will wait till all the leaves have fallen... Yeah, I'll do that. Take a nap till then.
 
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warden

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Pretty much the message of anyone on YouTube.
Mostly, yes.

This guy is doing fine, with a lot of subscribers tuning in. It's good to see people with this many followers discussing the esoteric pursuit of photography with film.
 
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