Analog experience in the commercial world

Edwardv · Apr 29, 2008

arigram said:
Staying with analog was probably the biggest mistake I've done with my life.
I would have dropped photography too, but I can't really do anything else, I am quite useless.

Well Arigram, if you truly feel that way I will take a flight to Crete and pick up your Hassies, films, Jobo, anything else that is photographic and spend time in Van, Turkey, Northeastern or Eastern Turkey, take a trip to Isreal and other countries I think I can visit. So when do I go and pick them up.

arigram · Apr 29, 2008

Edwardv said:
Well Arigram, if you truly feel that way I will take a flight to Crete and pick up your Hassies, films, Jobo, anything else that is photographic and spend time in Van, Turkey, Northeastern or Eastern Turkey, take a trip to Isreal and other countries I think I can visit. So when do I go and pick them up.

Give me 30,000 euros and they are all yours.

Edwardv · Apr 29, 2008

arigram said:
Give me 30,000 euros and they are all yours.

In your dreams. I am relieving you" from your biggest mistake you done in your life staying with analog."

removed account4 · Apr 29, 2008

rorye said:
It's the connection between your eye and your brain that a good client is paying for.
Not the medium you use.

while i agree with you 100% ... that said..

i just spoke with an art director today
and she told me how her clients are so demanding
of " i need it now, not after anything has time to be processed"
that even thought they are paying for the eye brain thing,
they want it yesterday, which is very unfortunate.
film gives essence to things that can't be conjured up any other way ...

john

Edwardv · Apr 29, 2008

We have gotten to a point in our society we demanded every thing instantly without appreciation of the value of time and life; cell phones glued to our ears, eyes glued to the lab tops or computers, thumbs at the buttons of a Blackberry, gotta have it now for the playoffs, bigger is better, you are pre-approved, even at $4 a gallon we will still buy those big SUVs. The way of life in America. I would like to see how people would survive for one week with out ipods, cell phones, lab tops, and other deceives which isolates from other people and disrupts our family dinners. I know I can survive. But can you???

naeroscatu · May 1, 2008

Arri, I don't know you but I hate to see you so demoralized man;
Many years ago I made a drastic change in my life, kind of started all from scratch so I asked myself what shall I do: continue with my 9 to 5 day job or try to make a living in photography.
I chose both in the following order: First the 9-5 day job (boring) to put food on the table and second kept photography as a hobby.
This way you continue to have photography close to your heart; If you manage to sell any of your artsy prints, that will be a bonus but overall you have your back covered. I'm definitely not that good to do commercial photography and at the same time create fine art so my ego feels good:rolleyes:. Hats off to those who can... Cheer up

DanielOB · May 5, 2008

ARIGRAM
Digital imaging and photography, or by "now" langualge usage: digital "photography" and former photography are completely different mediums.
They both can produce an image on paper...
Former photography is difficult to manipulate, or new medium as digital imaging is much easier to manipulate. Manipulation of any kind is most of the time what can sell, so former photography is not always practical for that usage. Also quality you can offer using former photography no one need for it will be lost in reproducing and printing on low paper quality. The purpose of modern images is to full people around to buy, not to show some kind of truth, so if you are after that, there is no sense to use film, as there is no sense to use digital imaging with high resolution and expensive camera and then print it by some ink....

If you like art use film but you have to pay a lot for it by suffering, as always been in just any medium (sculpture, painting,...).

www.Leica-R.com

arigram · May 5, 2008

Mihai, I simply don't agree with you.
Photography is not a hobby for me. Art is not a past time for me.
I have no 9-5 job, nor am I interested or able to get one.
Photography is something I want to do all the time, every day and feed myself.
Compared to the other arts I do, sculpture and drawing is the closest I can get to being able to feed myself.
Except computer graphics which I am good at and can make a career out of but I simply hate.

Daniel, I didn't understand you, your writing is not very clear.
Please, help me understand.

The point of the thread was to ask if any knowledge and experience in film has any value in the modern
photography market. I understand now that it does not, so it seems I have been wasting my time with film.
I don't know how much more I can work as a photographer. I will see if I get any lucky break.

digiconvert · May 5, 2008

arigram said:
Mihai, I simply don't agree with you.
Photography is not a hobby for me. Art is not a past time for me.
I have no 9-5 job, nor am I interested or able to get one.
Photography is something I want to do all the time, every day and feed myself......................The point of the thread was to ask if any knowledge and experience in film has any value in the modern
photography market. I understand now that it does not, so it seems I have been wasting my time with film.
I don't know how much more I can work as a photographer. I will see if I get any lucky break.

As a hobby photographer I appreciate that I cannot speak with authority on your predicament but I offer the following ;
- No knowledge is wasted knowledge (I'm a teacher for a living - the way that education is becoming a commodity not an experience depresses me intensely but hey ho ).
- i recently studied photography at a low/mid level and was the only film user in class. The digi guys had incredible respect for the fact that I relied on my skill (limited as it is) to ensure things came out right rather than shooting until it came right on the LCD. A knowledge of analogue photography and having to do it right first time means that you will work smarter and more efficiently , lowering costs to you and increasing margins/making you more competitive.
- If you are shooting commercial work what is stopping you making a living other than the normal competitive environment ? If it's the 'shoot till it's right' digi crowd they are not in your league and your skill should allow you to demand a premium. If the art directors want cheap and cheerful then you have to go with it and burn film , but your skill will still allow you to get results more efficiently.
- Journals such as the British Journal of Photography constantly rant at how the ease of entry to photography caused by the digi revolution has pushed prices down for ALL photographers , whether you shoot with MF or a Canon 5D someone with mid range digital SLR will undercut you on those jobs where quality is not an issue - analogue has no worse time than digital.

Not sure the above helps but just trying to point out that the problem isn't the medium of capture but the general attitude of "if it looks OK and it's cheap we'll go with it" One example to finish with;
School photographs are big business. This year a school I know of changed from a well known company to a new entrant because of lower costs. The photos came back looking appalling . The photographer (loose term) had obviously got the DOF wrong so the front two rows had been aggressively sharpened with Pshop and as a result looked vile. Nothing to do with the medium just the fact that a less skilled operative had relied on technology to replace skill.

arigram · May 5, 2008

digiconvert said:
As a hobby photographer I appreciate that I cannot speak with authority on your predicament but I offer the following ;
- No knowledge is wasted knowledge (I'm a teacher for a living - the way that education is becoming a commodity not an experience depresses me intensely but hey ho ).
- i recently studied photography at a low/mid level and was the only film user in class. The digi guys had incredible respect for the fact that I relied on my skill (limited as it is) to ensure things came out right rather than shooting until it came right on the LCD. A knowledge of analogue photography and having to do it right first time means that you will work smarter and more efficiently , lowering costs to you and increasing margins/making you more competitive.
- If you are shooting commercial work what is stopping you making a living other than the normal competitive environment ? If it's the 'shoot till it's right' digi crowd they are not in your league and your skill should allow you to demand a premium. If the art directors want cheap and cheerful then you have to go with it and burn film , but your skill will still allow you to get results more efficiently.
- Journals such as the British Journal of Photography constantly rant at how the ease of entry to photography caused by the digi revolution has pushed prices down for ALL photographers , whether you shoot with MF or a Canon 5D someone with mid range digital SLR will undercut you on those jobs where quality is not an issue - analogue has no worse time than digital.

Not sure the above helps but just trying to point out that the problem isn't the medium of capture but the general attitude of "if it looks OK and it's cheap we'll go with it" One example to finish with;
School photographs are big business. This year a school I know of changed from a well known company to a new entrant because of lower costs. The photos came back looking appalling . The photographer (loose term) had obviously got the DOF wrong so the front two rows had been aggressively sharpened with Pshop and as a result looked vile. Nothing to do with the medium just the fact that a less skilled operative had relied on technology to replace skill.

Thank you very much.
That's really the answer I was looking for.

DanielOB · May 6, 2008

If you wish to do commercial photography (means using film and chemicals) you will be, at the end of the story, outperformed by technology or digital camera users. This is not because your picture is of lower quality, but because no publisher wants your picture on the paper. It is a lot of work to them to manipulate such picture. They want digital images, and they are customers. They want to fool people around to buy sh***. Not really a god job for photography. Printed on low paper quality this is also very low level of imaging, and I say it is for stupid only. I do not respect it at all.
If you still want to do photography as we it knew before, eliminate third person from your business, e.g. publishers. Do it with your own hand only.
The way to do it is to open your own studio and make portraits on your own. I do it, I frame it, I deliver the photograph to customers home. And I do it all with film. Here no digital guys can compete with me. Just simple they will not find way of doing it. It is about B&W photography.
When color comes in play, digital technology, again, is out of any sense to compete with me. In color medium I use painting in oil on canvas, so let see how they can compete to me (he he he) with freaken inks... Many times I get and 100 times higher price on the same format then digitalures, but sometimes I loss making the similar price with them just because I do not want that they get the job, but it does not hurt me a lot, for I get a customer and for next (good price) job. Story goes on and you find your own way.
So, at the very end, digital imaging guys, in my case, are down in 100% times. I think they do not like me around them just because anti-shake incorporated in their BABY still make them blur images when I am around. Viva Old Holland . I never in my life had better living then in this digital era. Somehow I like it.
Again: eliminate third person and you got your photography.
Hope this time is clear.

www.Leica-R.com

panastasia · May 6, 2008

DanielOB said:
...... Do it with your own hand only.
The way to do it is to open your own studio and make portraits on your own. I do it, I frame it, I deliver the photograph to customers home. And I do it all with film. Here no digital guys can compete with me. Just simple they will not find way of doing it. It is about B&W photography.
When color comes in play, digital technology, again, is out of any sense to compete with me. In color medium I use painting in oil on canvas, so let see how they can compete to me (he he he) with freaken inks... Many times I get and 100 times higher price on the same format then digitalures.....

. I never in my life had better living then in this digital era. Somehow I like it.
Again: eliminate third person and you got your photography.
Hope this time is clear.

www.Leica-R.com

DanielOB, I like your independent thinking, I work in a similar way with my signature work; B&W fiber, hand color, custom mat & frame (I make exotic wood frames), and one-on-one with customers. Each finished work is unique and commands a higher price.

Your absolutely right! Others have trouble competing in our world where cheap jobs don't earn much cash.

Paul

Analog experience in the commercial world

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency