An interesting article by Huntington Witherill

nsurit · Oct 5, 2005

I did, for some unknown reason, receive an email from Huntington Witherall with links to his website. In addition to many images and the other stuff one might expect to find on a professionals website, there was an article, "Farewell to the Revolution", which all but the most hardcore zealots on this users group might find worthy of a read. The article and a representation of his work can be found at
Dead Link Removed

Bill Barber

David A. Goldfarb · Oct 5, 2005

Do a search on "witherill," and you should find several threads linking to this article.

photomc · Oct 5, 2005

ah-yup...what David said.

Nige · Oct 5, 2005

or in internet lingo... welcome to last week!

laz · Oct 5, 2005

Thank you! I'd been looking for a signature!

laz · Oct 5, 2005

"Yet, there remains a persistent cache of myths surrounding the very nature of the photographic process which, if allowed to persist, will only serve to fuel resistance to future developments in the art." (italics mine)

All other issues aside, that is about the stupidest pronouncement on this subject I have ever read!

It's exactly like saying that acrylic paints only served to fuel resistance to future developments in the art of oil painting.

I can appreciate anyone's well thought out intelligent discussion of the subject as his is. But I reserve the right to dismiss everything he says out of rejection of the premise.

Jorge · Oct 5, 2005

"Farewell to the Revolution", which all but the most hardcore zealots on this users group might find worthy of a read.

Hmmm, so now I am a zealot because I prefer analog, can do better with it than most digitoids and can argue it's many advantages?.....Get a life and go back to Photo.net, we dont need trolls like you here!

jovo · Oct 5, 2005

Yeah, I got the same email yesterday. I startled bristling at the early use of the term, "calcified resistance". No, Huntington, my resistance isn't calcified...it's reasoned and based on observation. And by the way, Mr. Witherill, your most recent color creations resemble the illustrations on Yugio cards. I'd probably like them if 1. I had no taste whatsoever. 2. Were 9 years old shopping for toys at Walmart. You've descended a long way from the fine work you did in "Orchestrating Icons". But, hey, as a calcified resistor, what else would you expect?

FrankB · Oct 5, 2005

I'm not going to get drawn into yet another pointless a. vs d. debate here, but on the article itself, and particularly the style of the article, I'd just say that it's very easy to win an argument in which you conduct both sides.

I won't be posting further in this thread ('cos I've a fair idea where it's going! ).

Bob F. · Oct 5, 2005

Readallaboutit! Readallaboutit! Readallaboutit!

Shock! Horror!

Spammer Overcome By Sense of Own Importance Writes Internet Article Commending His Own Entrenched Opinions And Complains About Other's Entrenched Opinions!

Never happened before!

Readallaboutit! Readallaboutit! Readallaboutit!

..... hurumph .....

See what happens when you respond to spammers...

Cheers, Bob.

bobbysandstrom · Oct 5, 2005

In the words of AA, The Print is the performance... Now, this is just my humble opinion, but, I'm sure glad Van Cliburn's "Performance" of the Rachmaninoff 3rd Piano Concerto with the Chicago Symphony wasn't done on a Digital Piano! Even on one of "Today's" digital pianos... 20 years after the Digital Revolution ended in the music biz.

mark · Oct 5, 2005

Uhh at least he can take a good picture, because his writing and reasoning skills suck.

nsurit · Oct 5, 2005

Jorge said:
Hmmm, so now I am a zealot because I prefer analog, can do better with it than most digitoids and can argue it's many advantages?.....Get a life and go back to Photo.net, we dont need trolls like you here!

Jorge, Unlike you, who described me as being a troll, I did not accuse you of being a zealot. Your actions, rather than my words, define you. That is the good news . . . perhaps also the bad news.

I suggested some might find this man's thoughts to be interesting even if they were not in agreement with their own. It was also suggested that all but the most "hardcore zealots" (you might read that as "closed minded fanatics") might find it worth a read. His ideas are just that . . . ideas. Not really the kind of thing most would get the panties all balled up about. Bill Barber

mark · Oct 5, 2005

here we go again.

Bob F. · Oct 5, 2005

which all but the most hardcore zealots on this users group might find worthy of a read

That's what the legal people might call entrapment... Almost as if it was a statement calculated to upset some people, providing an opportunity to complain when someone takes the bait... Hmmmmm... now, what kind of poster uses that kind of tactic?

Bob.

Jorge · Oct 5, 2005

nsurit said:
Jorge, Unlike you, who described me as being a troll, I did not accuse you of being a zealot. Your actions, rather than my words, define you. That is the good news . . . perhaps also the bad news.

I suggested some might find this man's thoughts to be interesting even if they were not in agreement with their own. It was also suggested that all but the most "hardcore zealots" (you might read that as "closed minded fanatics") might find it worth a read. His ideas are just that . . . ideas. Not really the kind of thing most would get the panties all balled up about. Bill Barber

Well see, here is the thing. Every now and then we get a guy like you who cannot stand it that there is an all analog site come and try to show us how they are the "voice of reason" and how we should read "interesting" pro digital opinions. Trust me, you are not the first one to try this in this site.

You might not have call me specifically a "zealot" but you certainly seem to imply there are some in this site, well I might be one of them. OTOH at least I am not pretending to sound smart by responding with the now worn and dull phrase "this says something more about you than me", this is pseudo psychology BS most often used by those who think this is a "clever" response. In the end it just shows a lack of originality.

Of course you then try to compound your zealot comment with "closed minded fanatic"...well let me tell you bubba, sometimes the great open mindedness you exhibit is nothing more than a sign that there is just air passing between the ears, with plenty of open space to rattle around.

Whitherhill's reasoning is so full of holes it is funny, and while you might find it "interesting" I find his "ideas" silly and given his examples (specially the color work) a perfect example of digital photography gone nuts, but I do take offense from someone like you coming to this site and telling us how we are zealots and "closed minded." Like I said, get a life and go back to PN, I am sure you are welcome there....

laz · Oct 5, 2005

Bob F. said:
... Hmmmmm... now, what kind of poster uses that kind of tactic?

Me: (waving hand in the air) I know, I know!!!

and with a smile I bid a fond farewell to this thread; those who wish to stay, enjoy the fireworks!

-Bob

nsurit · Oct 5, 2005

Bob F. said:
That's what the legal people might call entrapment... Almost as if it was a statement calculated to upset some people, providing an opportunity to complain when someone takes the bait... Hmmmmm... now, what kind of poster uses that kind of tactic?

Bob.

Hmm, perhaps you could in a PM explain what part of my response to Jorge you saw as being a complaint. In answer to your question, I would say a poster who has a broad interest in photography and is open to all ideas not just those which happen to agree with my particular point of view. That point of view, in this case, happens to be an evolving one. Is that what you were thinking? Bill Barber

sunnyroller · Oct 5, 2005

Print Prices

It is interesting that his silver prints cost more than his pigment prints. It seems to me that he values the silver print over the inkjet print. In my estimated there is a link between value and quality. He contends that digital methods are just another toolset for producing a product. It seems to me at some point the process commodifies the photographic product thus eventually devaluing it. Although one can argue it becomes easier to make photographs, but not necessarily easier to make quality photographs. As most people have learned in life easier does not always mean better.

The guy where I buy my photo supplies locally is very much old school although he does PS work. I was there one day when he was printing off some stuff on his big Epson and another customer came in. The customer just raved about the computer print and Larry told him you should see how much better it would look coming from the darkroom. After the customer left, Larry and I talked about how the one hour photo lab has lowered the consumers expectations paving the way for digital to be considered on par with analog by the average consumer. As much as Larry prefers analog over digital products he has had to add these services to stay competitive.

I have never made any fine art prints, so I do not speak from experience, but I can't imagine that it costs more to make a silver print. Ink for the Epson printers at our school's graphics lab is so expensive and we go through so much of it they have a camera pointed at the supply cabinet to discourage pilferage. We have 16 enlargers between two darkrooms with lots of chemicals and small equipment and there are no cameras pointed toward there doors.

I am not arguing that there is no place for digital prints, but I contend that they should never replace silver.

MurrayMinchin · Oct 5, 2005

I vote to re-elect Sherriff Jorge and the rest of the posse...good work!

Murray

Bob F. · Oct 5, 2005

nsurit said:
Hmm, perhaps you could in a PM explain what part of my response to Jorge you saw as being a complaint. In answer to your question, I would say a poster who has a broad interest in photography and is open to all ideas not just those which happen to agree with my particular point of view. That point of view, in this case, happens to be an evolving one. Is that what you were thinking? Bill Barber

Ah, but I didn't make any statements. I said "might" and "Almost as if" and posed a question: "what kind of poster..?"

See, I can play those games too... It's not difficult, but it is excessively boring. Byeeee......

Bob.

nsurit · Oct 5, 2005

OK, guys and girls, I'm putting myself in "time out" for starting a fight. I invite any others who feel they need it to join me. With one or two exceptions this posting did not elicit from me or anyone else, signs of intelligent life at APUG. I suggest we kill this tread and I promise to watch the topics of any future postings more closely. Bill Barber

Jorge · Oct 5, 2005

Ok, here is the thing. Just by the opening parahraph Witherhill makes a dumb assumption and you know it is going to go down hill from there....here is an example.

Save those few pockets of calcified resistance remaining among a handful of traditionalists focused primarily on the mechanics of the medium

For some reason, pixelographers have taken it into their heads that those of us doing traditional processes care more about the process than the quality of the final print. IOW that I think my prints are good just because they are made with pt/pd. I would like to disabuse Witherhill and all of them of this notion, and in fact the same argument could be turned around and the idea pixelography is more dependent on process that any of the traidtional methods can be put forward. Witherhill could not make his horrid color prints any other way than with PS, I can use any process that relies on a negative to give my prints a different "feel"....so this is just a small example of the kind of reasoning used in this article and which is nothing new or original as we can all see in the endless flame wars in this and other sites.

I could go on and on and on ripping apart this article, but what is the use, all of this has been said before.....

Re-elect Jorge for Sheriff

Jorge · Oct 5, 2005

nsurit said:
With one or two exceptions this posting did not elicit from me or anyone else, signs of intelligent life at APUG.

Zealots, closed minded fanatics and now dumb too? You certainly know how to make friends...... :rolleyes:

lee · Oct 5, 2005

jorge said this and I agree,"Re-elect Jorge for Sheriff"

lee\c

An interesting article by Huntington Witherill

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An interesting article by Huntington Witherill

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