Amidol stain Question

There is a thread that I started on Azo Forum , but thought that someone here might know the answer to my Questions





I am aware of the pink amidol stain from the past , but never had problems with it myself...
I am also aware that the Chineese/Greg Davis Amidol stain could be washed away...
And, yes, the suspended particles in this new amidol could be an issue if not filtered...
And, yes, that everything including the last step of selenium bath before final wash gets a residue of amidol stain that discolors it...


I have several prints now that have gone thru all the steps of the process and still have , what I feel a beautiful, warm, almost sepia, but not exactly;almost paladium/platinum , but not exactly stain, and my question is :

Does Amidol Stain have a harmful or distructing effect to the AZO print in a long run? and if that stain still there after a final wash of an hour of running filtered water , does that mean that the fixer is there as well?

Thank you,
ILYA

Nobody can answer this question for you. I certainly wouldn't want to say that it is okay and then your prints turn colors in a year or two.

Thank you.
It seem to me that there was a fluid that turn color to test if there was fixer residue in the paper or am i dreaming?
At least I would know if that is washed out.

ilya1963 said:

Thank you.
It seem to me that there was a fluid that turn color to test if there was fixer residue in the paper or am i dreaming?
At least I would know if that is washed out.

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Yes, indeed, there is, or have been test kits to test the activity of your hypo bath, as well as kits to test for residual hypo in your prints. Don't know if they are still around, but the name Edwal comes to mind.

Thank you.
I wonder if you or someone might know what chemestry that fluid consisted of
ILYA

ilya1963 said:

Thank you.
I wonder if you or someone might know what chemestry that fluid consisted of
ILYA

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Hi Ilya, here is the formula for Kodak Hypo Test HT-1a

Distilled water 180ml
Potassium permanganate 0.3 grams
Sodium Hydroxide 0.6 grams
Distilled water to make 250ml

To make the test with film, take 250ml of distilled water in a clear glass container and add 1ml of the HT-1a solution.

Take the film from the wash water and allow the residual water on the film to drip for 30 seconds into the test solution. If a small amunt of thiosulfate is present,the violet color of the test solution will slowly turn to orange (in about 30 seconds); when a larger amount of thiosulfate is present, the orange color will change to yellow. The orange or yellow color indicates insufficient washing. Continue washing until further testing produces no change in the violet color of the test solution.

To make the test with prints, take 125ml of distilled water in a clear glass container and add 1ml of the HT-1a solution. Pour 15ml of this diluted solution into another clear glass container.

Take a fixed and washed print from the wash water and allow the residual water on the print to drip for 30 seconds into the 15ml of test solution.

If a small quantity of hypo is present, the violet color will turn orange in about 30 seconds and become colorless in 1 minute. In either case, return the print (or prints) to the wash water and wash until further testing produces no change in the violet color of the test solution.

This formula and testing procedure is from HAIST, Modern Photographic Processing, page 673, Volume 1.

Thank you Tom very much, just what I wanted ...
What about Amidol stain ? Would you know why all the proceedures for printing on AZO are designed to remove that stain? Is it somehow unstable?
Thank you for your reply above.

Ilya, Grant Haist stated: "Tests for thiosufate in the wash water may be used for rough control of the washing process, but quantitative estimation of residual thiosulfate in the photographic material is not possible."

Ref. Grant Haist, Modern Photographic Processing, Volume 1, page 672.

ilya1963 said:

Thank you Tom very much, just what I wanted ...
What about Amidol stain ? Would you know why all the proceedures for printing on AZO are designed to remove that stain? Is it somehow unstable?
Thank you for your reply above.

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When stain occurs with amidol print developer, it is generally considered to be unattractive and therefore, undesireable.

Amidol can also be used as an image staining film developer (with little or no sulfite in the formula).

Tom Hoskinson said:

When stain occurs with amidol print developer, it is generally considered to be unattractive and therefore, undesireable.

Amidol can also be used as an image staining film developer (with little or no sulfite in the formula).

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Yes I new that Amidol is used as a developing agent for film.
I seem to be able to come up with a very nice tone of a print with AZO and Amidol and wondered if there were reasons why it was so looked down upon... I thought it was somehow harmful to the print in a long run...

I don't think amidol is "looked down upon," really. It just fell out of favor, because it is expensive compared to other developing agents and stains trays, sinks, fingers, and clothing.

Amidol is actually the developer of St. Ansel and of St. Weston - hardly a back shelf developer. Cost is a big deterant - Nitrile gloves help with safety issues. I sometimes use a weak stop bath for AZO with Amidol when it looks like the paper wants to stain. I generally do not observe any staining of the paper with Amidol even with a water bath stop. Although I have some Chinese Amidol, I am still using up some US made stuff right now. My expectations are that it will perform no differently. I would look at your developer formula. Maybe it is missing something? Just guessing here.

ilya1963 said:

Yes I new that Amidol is used as a developing agent for film.
I seem to be able to come up with a very nice tone of a print with AZO and Amidol and wondered if there were reasons why it was so looked down upon... I thought it was somehow harmful to the print in a long run...

Click to expand...

Ilya, I don't know any Amidol users who do not like the performance characteristics of Amidol as a print developer. Fiber based prints developed in Amidol can easily be processed to archival standards and are so processed by all the Amidol users I know.

People who have not used Amidol are often shocked by Amidol's price and they may be frightened by stories they hear about the toxicity of Amidol.

The toxicity of Amidol is pretty much on a par with that of Hydroquinone, Pyrogallol and Pyrocatechol: Once any of these chemicals are in solution, they can be safely handled using nitrile gloves.

Don't drink any of these solutions or take a bath in them.

Don't breathe the dry powder from any of these chemicals, use a respirator mask when weighing and mixing the dry chemicals.

Gentelmen,
I am sorry I did not make myself clear ... For the last three years I have worked only with Michael Smith's Amidol and his proceedure that is geared for removing the general stain out of the fiber paper , but now working with the new Chinese amidol I like the overall stain very much and would like to be able to keep it , but I am unable to find any information that talks about either for or against the general stain's long term results... Everything I can come up with is trying to remove it , but WHY? The only thing is , like Tom said it may be for apperance of it...