Amidol...Arrrggghhh

chrisofwlp · Apr 17, 2007

Today I recieved in the mail two pounds of Chinese Amidol; a very fine powder slightly darker then graphite. I mixed up 1000 ml of MAS Amidol.

Sodium sul. 30g
citric acid 3g
KBR 2ml
Amidol 8g

I expose a sheet of varycon Grade 2, and develop it. I turn on the lights after fixing and my paper is a bright yellow. as though someone took a Highlighter to it. Only after washing the paper for nearly 3 minutes did the staining subside.

In order to eliminate some variables I mixed up a more basic amidol.

Sod Sulf. 44g
Amidol 6.6 G
(formulary Amidol, intentionally omitting the KBR)

This formula stained just as bad.

I changed my stop bath, increased fixing time, went from the developer to a water bath then stop and fix. I also tried double fixing.

I assume this staining wasn't the fault of the paper; seeing how my thumb has been stained to a hue reminiscent of mustard.

Any assistance you can provide would be excellent.

Roger Hicks · Apr 17, 2007

Dear Christopher,

That's why I stopped using amidol too, though 'bright yellow' is perhaps more extreme than my experience. Mine was (as far as I am aware) Czech-synthesized. I did not have the same problem when I first used amidol in the 1960s with very old German-synthesized amidol, possibly from Hauff, that I inherited.

Like you, I'll be fascinated to hear others' reactions.

Cheers,

R.

Sparky · Apr 17, 2007

impurities? know anybody with a mass-spectrometer? (hmmm... wonder what those puppies cost on ebay these days??)

Amund · Apr 17, 2007

Amidol do stain a lot, and especially the Amidol from the recent Chinese order? I have a couple of pounds of the Chinese Amidol too, and the stain disapperars from the paper after a couple of minutes of washing.
This was written with a yellow thumb and middle finger(hole in gloves) :rolleyes:

juan · Apr 17, 2007

Some folks are filtering the amidol using various methods - check out michaelandpaula.com.
juan

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 17, 2007

Sometimes staining (which is usually pink, but with different papers, who knows?) can be pH related, and that may depend in part on the pH of the paper or your local water supply. There is a discussion of this in Anchell's _Darkroom Cookbook_. I haven't had this problem myself, so I don't recall whether to recommend increasing or decreasing pH, but that's where I'd look to find out. You might mix up a batch with distilled water just to rule out that variable.

c6h6o3 · Apr 17, 2007

Make sure you use a plain hypo (sodium thiosulfate and sodium bisulfite) two solution fixer bath. Ammonium fixers are notorious for staining prints developed in amidol.

Shawn Dougherty · Apr 17, 2007

I have not experienced the same problem. My fingers are stained more of a brownish black but not yellow. I've had a batch that stained the paper a bit pink, but was removed with my normal wash. I always use distilled water to mix my amidol... might be related.

I'd do what you can to figure it out, Amidol is a terrible thing to waste! Seriously, there is a wealth of info on MandP's AZO forum. Good luck! Shawn

chrisofwlp · Apr 17, 2007

Distilled water yielded identical results. Increasing the PH had no effect.
What can I add to lower the PH ?

This Amidol is very odd. It stains everything yellow rather then reddish brown. when it is filtered either through cotton or a coffee filter it turns to a bright red, and stains yellow.

nworth · Apr 17, 2007

My first experience with amidol (2,4-diaminophenol) was in the early seventies. That material was practical grade from Eastman Chemical and was an off white powder. The material you get today is dark brown, which indicates a lot of impurities. Amidol developers, however, oxidize and become brown very quickly. Even with pure amidol, this stain sticks with the print, at least to some extent, until it is washed. But with pure amidol, the staining is much less than with what is now available. I tried using amidol developer again a few months ago, using material from Photographers' Formulary. It worked fine, but the fixer became red after only a couple of prints. I'm not sure how much difference it makes. The stain washes out. The print is more difficult to judge, since the image is obscured to some extent by the stain. You need to be able to rinse off most of the stain to evaluate exposure. I had no problem doing this with Formulary amidol, but less pure material may make that difficult.

ilya1963 · Apr 18, 2007

-"Today I recieved in the mail two pounds of Chinese Amidol

I expose a sheet of varycon Grade 2, and develop it. I turn on the lights after fixing and my paper is a bright yellow. as though someone took a Highlighter to it.

Only after washing the paper for nearly 3 minutes did the staining subside."

You answered your own question !!! Water wash is your answer

And, I am sorry but ONE piece of Paper exposed and developed is no cause for this post... Go thru a hundred then you learn top live with the stain , it is just a learning curve , the stain is gone after a wash and after a while you don't even see it anymore , it does stain everything and caries thru every step of the way , but after a good wash it is not there... trust me .
I also see your post on AZO phorum and Pink Aidol was a totaly different issue , just a bad batch some people got , just work thru it don't let it throw you off keep on printing...Good luck

P.S. I am on my second pound of this stuff and litteraly thousands sheets of AZO.
Regards, ILYA

philsweeney · Apr 18, 2007

chrisofwlp said:
Chinese Amidol

I ended up using a filter flask and buchner funnel. I already had a mighty mite vacuum pump (auto engine work etc). I filter three times to remove all the particulate. This only prevents staining from the particles which I found to be a serious problem. For the first filtering I use the filter for the funnel and cheap coffee filters. The second and third time with a coffee filter only. The third may not be needed but I do it anyhow. The print is still yellow. I do a 1 minute wash after the stop, then to the first fix. The first fix gets yellow after time. The first initial fix is only for 30s. After viewing the print I place in a water bath. A good amount of the stain comes out there. After collecting a few prints I finish fix 1 for 3.5 minutes. etc. The bottom line for me is I end up changing the fixer solution a little more with the chinese amidol. I have thought about 3 fix baths with a significant wash time after the intial 30 second fix.

Wash time is what removes the stain.

Michael Kadillak · Apr 18, 2007

Shawn Dougherty said:
My fingers are stained more of a brownish black but not yellow.

Please remember to use nitrile gloves when you put your fingers in Amidol. The risk is not proportional to the minor inconvenience of using a glove and they are surely inexpensive. The dermal adsorption of this chemical is alarming and it is a road that one should not go down in this day and age

Cheers!

steven_e007 · Apr 18, 2007

I've used Amidol in the past.

I stopped using it only because I couldn't honestly say that with the papers I used (mostly Kentmere fibre papers) that it was noticeably different to the conventional formula MQ developers I was using.

But! No stain. Oh fingers it stains very well, but I never had any problems with the papers. I found it very clean and easy to use. My Amidol was purchased from a now defuct UK company, but was quite expensive.

Steve

pentaxuser · Apr 18, 2007

OK I recognise that a couple of UK based members/subscribers have used this in the past but have now forsaken it for what seems to be very good reasons. However it does seem to be a particularly U.S. favoured product despite its drawbacks.

Can I ask what its special properties are which outweigh the aforementioned drawbacks?

From what I have read already it would need to be very special compared to other easier to use products to tempt me?

Is it not an outdated product that has been superceded by equally effective other products with none of its drawbacks?

pentaxuser

Shawn Dougherty · Apr 18, 2007

Christopher,

"Your camera takes really nice pictures."

"Your mouth makes really nice compliments."

Excellent!

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 18, 2007

If the paper you are using is amenable to amidol (not developer incorporated or at least not excessively so, soft emulsion), then the advantages are very deep blacks and the option of water bath control to reduce contrast when you want it. Water bath is particularly attractive, if you like graded papers.

Two papers that work well with amidol are Efke Emaks (J&C Nuance, also the former Cachet Expo and Maco Expo) and Azo (discontinued, but there's lots of it around).

c6h6o3 · Apr 19, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
Two papers that work well with amidol are Efke Emaks (J&C Nuance, also the former Cachet Expo and Maco Expo) and Azo (discontinued, but there's lots of it around).

Kentona works well with it, too. When developed in amidol a printer can actually increase contrast by increasing development time. In this regard I find the paper unique.

Roger Hicks · Apr 19, 2007

pentaxuser said:
Can I ask what its special properties are which outweigh the aforementioned drawbacks?

From what I have read already it would need to be very special compared to other easier to use products to tempt me?

Is it not an outdated product that has been superceded by equally effective other products with none of its drawbacks?

pentaxuser

It's rare and expensive and hard to get, and hardly anyone uses it. All of this is MUCH more important than making good pictures.

Years ago, I loved it (I was given about 300g some 40 years ago). But the quality of available amidol has gone down and down and the stain has gone up and up and looking back on my amidol-devved prints from the past I'd back my current prints on Ilford MG WT in any normal dev today. Part of that is that I'm a better photographer, and part is that I have ever less faith in snake oil.

Cheers,

R.

pentaxuser · Apr 19, 2007

Thanks all for the replies.

pentaxuser

steven_e007 · Apr 19, 2007

c6h6o3 said:
Kentona works well with it, too. When developed in amidol a printer can actually increase contrast by increasing development time. In this regard I find the paper unique.

Interesting. Kentona was one of the very papers I was refering too and I tried Amidol specifically because of this advice which I had heard elsewhere.

But for me it just didn't seem to do anything very special. I was really hoping for a bit more density, but I found no advantage over a strong dilution of a cold tone MQ developer...

But! Kentona has changed over the years (haven't they all, removal of Cadmium and other nasties) so maybe the Kentona I tried and the Kentona other people have got to respond well with Amidol wasn't the same Kentona?

Steve

juan · Apr 20, 2007

My Azo prints developed in amidol were magic - not snake oil. Other papers are have been good in amidol, but not a lot different than Ansco 130. I've begun working with Kentona, and I believe I'm seeing a difference there. Time and practice will tell.
juan

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 20, 2007

Sandy King posted the results of a controlled comparison of Ansco 130 and amidol and demonstrated that you could get almost identical results with either developer and normal processing, but noted that water bath control worked much better with amidol.

ilya1963 · Apr 20, 2007

"My Azo prints developed in amidol were magic "-Juan

Same here

If one has never seen an AZO print that was done right , one has no idea of what it could be, it has a magic feel to it like you said , it just goes forever and when it is framed and hung it is like installing a window on the wall ...

Amidol...Arrrggghhh

chrisofwlp

Roger Hicks

Sparky

Amund

juan

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

c6h6o3

Shawn Dougherty

chrisofwlp

nworth

ilya1963

philsweeney

Michael Kadillak

steven_e007

pentaxuser

Shawn Dougherty

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

c6h6o3

Roger Hicks

pentaxuser

steven_e007

juan

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

ilya1963

Amidol...Arrrggghhh

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency