Am I Ruining Photography by buying 'relabeled' Film?

Phillip P. Dimor

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This has been bothering me for a while. I generally purchase film once or twice a year. I used to purchase more but unfortunately I don't get out much anymore.

At first all I used was Agfa film. It was priced right and gave me excellent results. Then it went goodbye.

I then decided to stick with Tri-X because it came in 35mm, 120 and 4x5 and I figured that it would never go anywhere. I love Tri-X.
Unfortunately my wallet hates the stuff and Ilford isn't cheaper. I loved Forte as well but then.. it went away too.
So I have a confession; I buy the repackaged Foma films from Freestyle.

By me trying to save some money (and in some cases a fairly significant amount) am I killing Kodak and Ilford? Is Foma even turning a profit? Their re-badged stuff is much cheaper than their actual 'Foma' offering (the paper prices are ridiculous)..

I guess I feel guilty..
 

rossawilson1

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Not all by your self you're not killing them. Not unless you spend a few million a year.

Those companies have plenty of people who love and buy their products. Ilford and Kodak have already been through tough times, they survived, they should be alright.
 

Ian Grant

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Just keep buying, the manufacturers need sales regardless. The Foma film from Freestyle won't be repackaged Foma will be packaging it like that for them. Remember Foma have no distribution and marketing costs on that Freestyle film.

Ian
 

Sirius Glass

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I will absolve you of your guilt if you send me all of your 4x5 equipment!


​

Steve
 

SilverGlow

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Regardless of our love for film, it is not our job to somehow save Ilford, Kodak and Fuji...that is their problem, and they will not turn their backs on us because there are still too many of us to ignore. Sure, those companies will downsize, and downsizing does not necessarily mean higher prices.

I buy loads of Arista Premium 35mm B&W from FreeStyle. It's rumored to be repackaged Tri-X. I also sleep like a baby ;-) And at $1.99/roll 36 exposures too.
 

MikeSeb

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You have this all backward, man. You buy what works for YOU, buy as much or as little as you need. It's the manufacturers' job to supply it to you at a quality you want and at a price you are willing to pay. Buy buying what you need, you are sending them a signal that tells them what their customers want.

With any other arrangement, you are essentially subsidizing their failure to deliver the goods, so to speak. This is how a market economy is supposed to work; individuals make purchase decisions with their own best interests in mind, and the aggregate result of millions of such daily decisions is higher quality and lower price.
 

JBrunner

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Yes, to make up the difference please buy twice as much and send half to me.
 

dpurdy

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The big guys have done their market research and are trying to maximize their profits. They figure out how high they can make the prices without losing customers, banking on brand loyalty, and those people pay a premium. The best thing you can do is buy the rebranded less expensive stuff.
 

benjiboy

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Hi, Phillip if I had this dilema, I would ask myself two hard Questions the first being, how much difference is there in the resultant prints ? and secondly is the quality of my work so high that it makes a difference ?
 

phc

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What makes people believe Arista Premium is Tri-X? Last time I looked Tri-X was 400asa, whereas AP is available at 100asa. There is, however, another Kodak B&W film that is available at both those ratings...

Cheers, P.
 

Silverhead

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phc said:
What makes people believe Arista Premium is Tri-X?
Click to expand...

This is old news. Arista Premium 400 has been tested by numerous people on this forum and the consensus is that it is indeed Tri-X. The development times are the same, the grain is the same, the tonality is the same. In other words, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's pretty likely a duck.

And, nobody is putting any film manufacturer out of business by buying relabeled film. They are still getting paid for their product, whether it's in their own box or not--plus they likely don't have to pay for their own packaging, distribution or advertising. They're still making money, so knock yourself out and take advantage of the deal you're getting with the private label film.
 

ron110n

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SilverGlow said:
I buy loads of Arista Premium 35mm B&W from FreeStyle.
Click to expand...

Ah, so you were the kitty cat who cut into my line at Freestyle... Just kidding. =)

I tested 2 rolls of Arista Premium and love it. I'm a fan of Arista, Foma, Fortepan and Berger. Only at Freestyle on our side of the pond. Aren't we lucky to live next to paradise?

See you at Freestyle Silver!

-Ron
 

Michael Kadillak

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The facts are that quality and innovation as it relates to photographic film require significant financial investment which are recovered as a function of time in the price that the consumer pays. The facts are that the only company that I am aware of that is investing in improving film technology is Eastman Kodak. They have just announced a new Ektar color film and recently improved their T Max 400.

My approach is that in a free market one should be driven by either reliability or results to the best product available or not. There will always be a segment that does not care about using the best product available and/or is willing to put up with less than perfect quality control because for them it is more about price. Such is life.

But here is a thought to ponder. The free market also mandates that if the market for inexpensive film becomes the dominant market, Kodak, Fuji and Ilford will no longer be in business.

While I have dabbled with lower cost sheet film, I have yet to find myself satisfied with the results. Emulsion imperfections, film notches missing to identify emulsion side up, slightly imperfect cut sizes etc. all result in frustration and inefficiency. At the end of the day I have concluded that I am far better off making a small number of highly selective images to the best of my ability knowing that the film is perfect than to shoot more of the less expensive product trying to convince yourself that quantity is a more important variable than quality. This is probably much more of an issue with sheet film, but I suspect that the same rules could apply with virtually ALL formats.

Just a difference of opinion nothing perosnal.
 

TheFlyingCamera

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I have been quite satisfied with the Foma films from Freestyle. They have produced outstanding results and are easy to work with. Now, were they only say 5-10% cheaper than Kodak or Ilford, would I still consider them? Maybe, maybe not. Having shot with them, and knowing what I know now, I'd probaby still use them. Walking into it blind, I could see how it would be easy to give them a pass if they were not significantly cheaper. But I'm glad I did give them a try.

That said, back to the original topic. What is most important is that you are using film in the first place; whichever company produces a product that meets your needs is the one you should buy.
 

mabman

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*Somebody* is supplying Freestyle and Ultrafine with the film to rebrand in the first place. One would think if it wasn't profitable or beneficial to them in some way the film manufacturers wouldn't even supply it.

We've discussed this to death, in particular over the Arista Premium, but I suspect there's either signficant excess capacity at the manufacturers, or they're trying to pick up the "bottom end" of the market and don't think it will effect their regular sales at all.

For me, due to exchange rates, shipping costs, and import duties, buying these films is bit of a PITA and doesn't save me a tremendous amount when it's all said and done, so I don't do a lot of it. If it was available closer and/or even cheaper, I might consider it.
 

Dennis S

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phc said:
What makes people believe Arista Premium is Tri-X? Last time I looked Tri-X was 400asa, whereas AP is available at 100asa. There is, however, another Kodak B&W film that is available at both those ratings...

Cheers, P.
Click to expand...
They make Arista Premium 100asa AND 400asa
 

SilverGlow

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Ron, I try to make it there at least once a month...you know...to fondle the merchandise...something buying online can't offer....and as to Arista hording, I'll place a brick aside for you....jest tell them Silver sent you ;-)
 

gatewaycityca

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No, you shouldn't feel guilty. You have to use what works for you. Buy the film that you like and that you can afford. In the long run, that helps everyone. As long as you keep shooting film. What would be the point of buying a different, more expensive film if you could rarely use it? Then you wouldn't be helping the film industry, yourself, or other photographers.

Besides, there are plenty of other people who buy Ilford and Kodak film. I love Kodak Plus-X. It's my favorite B&W film. And I buy Ilford photo paper all the time.
 

CBG

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I'm just glad someone else is using film - that makes one more of us and a greater aggregate demand for film - keep buying.

C
 

nickandre

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CBG said:
I'm just glad someone else is using film - that makes one more of us and a greater aggregate demand for film - keep buying.

C
Click to expand...

this is the ANALOG photo users group...
 

ron110n

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SilverGlow said:
Ron, I try to make it there at least once a month...you know...to fondle the merchandise...something buying online can't offer....and as to Arista hording, I'll place a brick aside for you....jest tell them Silver sent you ;-)
Click to expand...

Silver, familiar with the creamy film signature???
I love buying Arista Premium over the counter at Freestyle!!!
They come in bulk too...


Arista Premium 400 / Voightlander Heliar 75mm asph f2.5 / DDX
I borrowed the lens to test and started hating my APO Summicron 75mm asph.
 

monkeykoder

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They come in BULK??? How much do I have to buy to get that discount?
 

MattKing

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I think a better question might be:

"Am I helping photography by paying more for 'name' brand film?"

There might be a small argument for answering "yes", because I expect that the manufacturers make more profit on the films with their own names on it.

Matt
 

SilverGlow

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monkeykoder said:
They come in BULK??? How much do I have to buy to get that discount?
Click to expand...

$29.99 for 100 feet of 100 or 400 ISO...that price is good for just one reel.
 

SilverGlow

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Very nice B&W picture, Ron...
 
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