Am I a Film Snob?

John Bragg · May 22, 2008

I think I experienced a little film snobbery of my own this week. I was showing a co-worker some of my latest work taken on Neopan 400 developed in Rodinal and printed on warmtone paper. At first he was a little speechless and then he asked a question. " Are these done in solution and hung up to dry like in the movies" ?? I said they were indeed done like that and his reply was, "Wow!!! They are amazing !!! ". Being brought up in the digital way of doing everything, he was firstly shocked that I still dabbled in this sort of alchemy, and then impressed with the feel and qualities that they posessed over a colour digi snap.....

Steve Roberts · May 22, 2008

milkplus-mesto said:
I'm 15 (why do i always feel the need to start all my posts like that?) QUOTE]

I'm not sure, but as an old fart I feel strangely reassured that you do because it demonstrates that not all young folk sheepishly follow the digital route of so many of their contemporaries.

Best wishes,

Steve

jamusu · May 22, 2008

Way to go John!

Jamusu.

drpsilver · May 22, 2008

22 May 2008

I cannot count the number of times I have set-up the 4x5 in the field only to have fellow hikers stop and ask "That must be a really old camera." In fact it is less that 2 years old, and I have chosen to work in LF. I usually take the opportunity to discuss photography, why I shoot LF, and allow them to look at the photograph I have set-up. Almost everyone is excited to see how some of the 'Masters of Photography" made their photographs.

It gives me a good feeling to be able to share my love of photography, and extol the wonders of film.

Regards,
Darwin

railwayman3 · May 22, 2008

drpsilver said:
22 May 2008

I cannot count the number of times I have set-up the 4x5 in the field only to have fellow hikers stop and ask "That must be a really old camera." In fact it is less that 2 years old, and I have chosen to work in LF. I usually take the opportunity to discuss photography, why I shoot LF, and allow them to look at the photograph I have set-up. Almost everyone is excited to see how some of the 'Masters of Photography" made their photographs.

It gives me a good feeling to be able to share my love of photography, and extol the wonders of film.

Regards,
Darwin

Reminds me of a quote from some famous artist/critic in the early days of photography, something like "from now on, painting is dead".
Yet now, after maybe 130 years, amateur painting is a bigger hobby than ever it was, and we all stop to look and show interest when we see an artist, with brushes and easel, painting a landscape.

jamusu · May 22, 2008

Excellent point Darwin.

Jamusu.

KD5NRH · May 23, 2008

John Bragg said:
" Are these done in solution and hung up to dry like in the movies" ?? I said they were indeed done like that

You mean, just like in the movies where:
a) The film just isn't there - the scene starts with prints in the single tray of the single chemical
b) The photographer has no idea what's actually in the picture until the 8x10 print is developed
c) Everything is printed in 8x10
d) Miraculously, the closet-size size darkroom has plenty of room to hang all the prints to dry

jamusu · May 23, 2008

KD5NRH said:
You mean, just like in the movies where:
a) The film just isn't there - the scene starts with prints in the single tray of the single chemical
b) The photographer has no idea what's actually in the picture until the 8x10 print is developed
c) Everything is printed in 8x10
d) Miraculously, the closet-size size darkroom has plenty of room to hang all the prints to dry

KD5NRH.

Ironically, the very points you listed are many of the things that sparked my interest in photography as a child. Television made photography seem mystical to me at the time.

Jamusu.

Uncle Bill · May 23, 2008

The glass blowers treated you like a peer because you approach photography like they approach glass.

jamusu · May 23, 2008

Uncle Bill said:
The glass blowers treated you like a peer because you approach photography like they approach glass.

Uncle Bill.

That is what I was thinking. I meant to ask them, but never got around to doing so, but I strongly believe it has a lot to do with what you said.

I have their contact info. Maybe I will ask them later.

Jamusu.

Iwagoshi · May 27, 2008

jamasu,

I hope you will share the prints with us and I send a few copies to the glass blowers. Artist respect and recognition goes both ways, I'm sure they would be delighted to see the fruits of your labor as you saw theirs.

Terry

jamusu · May 28, 2008

Iwagoshi said:
jamasu,

I hope you will share the prints with us and I send a few copies to the glass blowers. Artist respect and recognition goes both ways, I'm sure they would be delighted to see the fruits of your labor as you saw theirs.

Terry

Terry.

I took their information. I plan to send them some prints if I have anything of quality. Even better, they said that if I come up with any good prints that I may have a chance of having them displayed where they work.

This is why I shot 9 rolls over the entire week instead of the 2 that I originally planned to shoot on that day. I instantly became serious once they mentioned this opportunity, and from that point on was on a, "PURE PHOTOGRAPHIC ADRENALINE RUSH".

I am still learning to read natural light, but found myself reading light better, as well as waiting patiently for shots that I thought would be good. Surprisingly, at the end of each day, I noticed that I was thinking of angles that I would use to capture shots for the next day.

As you may know, the Pentax K-1000 is fully manual and has no depth of field preview so I had to think the entire time while photographing and adjust my settings based on how much or little depth of field that I wanted. I used shutter and f-stop combinations that I had never in the past used before. As a result, I was mentally fatigued by weeks end. Extremely mentally fatigued.

My mind was constantly running and it seemed to me as though my photographic vision grew tremendously during this time frame. As stated earlier, I was on a' "PURE PHOTOGRAPHIC ADRENALINE RUSH", and had a hard time getting out of that frame of mind once the week was over.

Hopefully my settings were correct and I will out of the 9 rolls have a few pictures worth printing.

Jamusu.

walter23 · May 28, 2008

I'm neither film nor digital snob. If I need something that only film can do (like a detailed landscape requiring 4x5 resolution, or pinhole work, or something requiring the perspective control of my view camera, or something I'd like to print with a particular darkroom technique), I use film. If I am doing something better suited to digital (like macrophotography of insects), I use digital. It really doesn't matter.

I just hope film continues to be relatively inexpensive so I can pursue my film hobbies without too much pain.

I suspect the glass blowers just recognized a kindred spirit - they're doing something that generally has been replaced by chinese labour and/or robotic machines. You're doing something that has been mostly replaced by digital shooting. There are obvious parallels; you're using a specific and now somewhat-unconventional medium to pursue your artistic goals, as are the glass blowers.

Kevin Caulfield · May 28, 2008

I think it is important to show them most of the prints, even the ones you do not consider to be "any good", because there is a good chance they will love most of them.

digiconvert · May 28, 2008

jamusu said:
Terry.

I am still learning to read natural light, but found myself reading light better, as well as waiting patiently for shots that I thought would be good. Surprisingly, at the end of each day, I noticed that I was thinking of angles that I would use to capture shots for the next day.

As you may know, the Pentax K-1000 is fully manual and has no depth of field preview so I had to think the entire time while photographing and adjust my settings based on how much or little depth of field that I wanted. I used shutter and f-stop combinations that I had never in the past used before. As a result, I was mentally fatigued by weeks end. Extremely mentally fatigued.

My mind was constantly running and it seemed to me as though my photographic vision grew tremendously during this time frame. As stated earlier, I was on a' "PURE PHOTOGRAPHIC ADRENALINE RUSH", and had a hard time getting out of that frame of mind once the week was over.

Hopefully my settings were correct and I will out of the 9 rolls have a few pictures worth printing.
Jamusu.

I think this is the core of the film/digital debate. When I attended a photo course last year the rest of the class all shot digital. Because I had to rely on getting shots right first time I took fewer shots but thought hard about each one. My colleagues produced some excellent work but were less worried about light readings, composition etc. than I was because they modified their shooting as they got feedback from the LCD. It's a different skill set (note I did not say better or worse) but I feel that the use of film improves your self confidence as a photographer because you have to get it right first time. Using the K1000 reinforces this. I know that I am lazier with my new SLR with Auto Bracketing etc. than I am with my MF gear, for the same reasons as outlined above.
It's not snobbery it's a personal choice based on a desire to develop yourself.

DanielOB · May 30, 2008

Advances of science is of high authority (e.g. theory of relativity, atom bomb, ...) among masses and it takes tool from those having a problem to undestand it. It is very common that digital camera guys consider themself to be "in time", and they try not to use a rotary phone. And it is the only reason they buy it, not to be behind. After investment is laid down (sometimes and thousandsa of dollars) the next it to show thay are here in "2000 year and after". So it is one way, come close and comment: hello your camera is a nice OLD TIME camera. So this is mainly stupid part of the world (with rare exceptions)
The second group is professional manipulators, making living from fooling people around with photoshop,... This group I would call low character people that actually failed to get education and to undestand life.

If my photo cameras is "out of date" because it uses long time around film, what I should say for my brushes and paints? But look how just so simple tools as painting brush easy outperform the most modern techology as digital imaging that cost, fuf.
Daniel OB
www.Leica-R.com

2F/2F · May 30, 2008

Pix is pix, and pix takers is pix takers. The medium is not important to me. Four-stops-underexposed pix makes it apparent how irrelevant the medium is for you as well.

jamusu · Jun 7, 2008

digiconvert said:
I think this is the core of the film/digital debate. When I attended a photo course last year the rest of the class all shot digital. Because I had to rely on getting shots right first time I took fewer shots but thought hard about each one. My colleagues produced some excellent work but were less worried about light readings, composition etc. than I was because they modified their shooting as they got feedback from the LCD. It's a different skill set (note I did not say better or worse) but I feel that the use of film improves your self confidence as a photographer because you have to get it right first time. Using the K1000 reinforces this. I know that I am lazier with my new SLR with Auto Bracketing etc. than I am with my MF gear, for the same reasons as outlined above.
It's not snobbery it's a personal choice based on a desire to develop yourself.

Excellent point.

Jamusu.

K_Pugh · Jun 7, 2008

Just to add my 2 pence worth.

I used to shoot with digital (Nikon D70) when i first got into photography. However, that's long gone and i've now got a Nikon F50 (simple SLR) and two FED-4 Rangefinders. I only use HP5 in bulk and develop my own.

The learning curve is greater using film. The appreciation of your shots increases ten fold. Using the old rangefinders (the light meters dont work) and applying the Sunny 16 rule and guessing the exposure and light levels etc is extremely satisfying once you get the negatives out from the tank and see that they look ok.

I also take a lot less photographs using film and take more time over them, getting them right first time by thinking rather than trial and error.

When i'm out using my old FED, i ashamedly admit to a certain level of snobbery using such an old manual, fully mechanical camera and B&W film when i see all the people out there with their 10D's, D200's etc and see them using flash against/through windows, shooting at the sun etc. I don't look down on them, far from it, i just feel like giving them my FED to play around with to get them thinking more.

I prefer film over digital, everything about it. The only way i'll go digital is for colour due to expense mostly but i'll still carry a 35mm camera around with me.

jamusu · Jun 7, 2008

K_Pugh said:
Just to add my 2 pence worth.

I prefer film over digital, everything about it. The only way i'll go digital is for colour due to expense mostly but i'll still carry a 35mm camera around with me.

This is the same thing that I have said if and when I ever decide to shoot color.

Jamusu.

benjiboy · Jun 12, 2008

Speaking personally, I'm still struggling with film after shooting it for more than fifty years, and am still in awe of film especially the the current ones. I have no inclination to start re -learning a medium that the camera manufacturers have re-invented to keep the camera market alive, persuading people to replace perfectly good film cameras with their latest miracle cameras.
I came to the conclusion many years ago that the idea that "if I only had a better camera/lens etc. I could take better pictures, and excellence in photography isn't a problem you can throw money at, especially when I look at the work of the great photographers, consider the equipment they used ,and compare it with today's cameras

I hope that one day I can become a good enough photographer to justify the equipment I own

JBrunner · Jun 12, 2008

2F/2F said:
Pix is pix, and pix takers is pix takers. The medium is not important to me. Four-stops-underexposed pix makes it apparent how irrelevant the medium is for you as well.

The medium is important to me. Dead on perfect exposure with my 8x10 makes it apparent exactly how relevant the medium is for me.

2F/2F · Jun 12, 2008

JBrunner said:
The medium is important to me. Dead on perfect exposure with my 8x10 makes it apparent exactly how relevant the medium is for me.

I don't understand...

How is it that the medium gives you "dead on perfect exposure"?

What your medium gives you is extreme sharpness and detail, not "perfect" exposure.

JBrunner · Jun 12, 2008

2F/2F said:
I don't understand...

How is it that the medium gives you "dead on perfect exposure"?

What your medium gives you is extreme sharpness and detail, not "perfect" exposure.

I see your point now, and in that view, I agree with you.

My point is that properly executed, the medium is directly relevant to the artifact. (print)

In other words, all things being equal, mediums aren't. (not saying any one is better than any other)

Don Wallace · Jun 12, 2008

David A. Goldfarb said:
Weegee said always to carry a big camera like a Speed Graphic, and the police would let you enter the crime scene, because you would look like you were supposed to be there.

This whole thread is very funny and the WeeGee quote is spot on. All of us have experiences of getting preferential treatment for using big cameras and now, it seems, film cameras. I remember being at the family reunion of a friend and attempting to take some shots down by the water with my Crown Graphic. Someone shouted "THE PHOTOGRAPHER IS HERE!" and the whole family (about 50 in all) lined up for a photo, and me with a 180 lens.

At the other end of the spectrum, I was in DC last year with my RB67 and stumbled upon the shooting of a scene for the last "Bourne" movie (btw, I saw the movie and I think this scene hit the cutting room floor). I started to bang off a few shots with the RB and was immediately set upon by security guards who told me I was not allowed to shoot there. I told them politely but pretty firmly that since this was a public place, yes, I could shoot. They grumbled and then insisted that I could not use these photos for commercial purposes. This is also untrue, but I decided not to argue and confessed that I was just a tourist. "With a camera like THAT?" the guard asked, incredulous. At this point, my wife piped in informing the man that I was a photography nerd. He then wanted to know all about the camera. Not even wood and brass, and yet he was intrigued simply by the bulk of it in this age of small cameras.

Am I a Film Snob?

John Bragg

Steve Roberts

jamusu

drpsilver

railwayman3

jamusu

KD5NRH

jamusu

Uncle Bill

jamusu

Iwagoshi

jamusu

walter23

Kevin Caulfield

digiconvert

DanielOB

2F/2F

jamusu

K_Pugh

jamusu

benjiboy

JBrunner

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2F/2F

JBrunner

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Don Wallace

Am I a Film Snob?

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