Alternatives to Forte papers - Adox?

matti · Jan 13, 2007

So, if I don't want to stock up with Forte papers but find a substitute for the FB Polywarmtone and graded FB Forteezo, what about the Adox papers sold by Fotoimpex?

I tried searching the forums but got quite lost in all different namings of these papers...

If I got it right the Adox Polywarmtone and Adox Warmtone are rebadged Forte papers and the Vario Classic and Nuance are Efke/Adox, right?

/matti

juan · Jan 13, 2007

That's my understanding. My experience with Nuance is that it is a neutral toned paper.

In searching this site, I've also read good things about Foma 131 as a good warm tone paper. I may be looking at this one.
juan

JLP · Jan 14, 2007

Just completed a printing session and specifically wanted to know the difference between Forte's Polywarmtone and Fomatone MG 131. The Fomatone is new to me so i didn't know how it would look.
Both papers were developed in Dektol and the prints are actually pretty close as far as tonallity, the Foma paper is betwen 1/2 and 3/4 grade softer than the Polywarmtone but otherwise pretty nice. Think i could make the Fomatone work now the Polywarmtone soon will be history.

jan

timeUnit · Jan 15, 2007

Um, did you notice the cream base on Fomatone? Polywarmtone has a neutral white base.

The emulsion is also a bit more pronounced green/olive in Dektol, in my experience. Toning Fomatone in selenium yields a quite different color than does Polywarmtone.

I use both papers and they both are great, but quite different. One couldn't replace the other.

The thing that I and many others like with Forte's warm tone papers is the combination of neutral base and warm emulsion. You get clean whites, and warm mid/shadows.

I will miss Forte.

Damn, it's cruel world, and what a crappy way to start off the year.

timeUnit · Jan 15, 2007

BTW, VarioClassic is probably not Efke. Some say it's very reminiscent of a DuPont paper produced in Hungary (Varilure?).

don sigl · Jan 15, 2007

TimeUnit hit it on the head. The tewo nice features of Gorte PWT are the clean white base and the toning cababilities. Forte tones beautifully in Nelsons gold toner. I have never found a paper that produces the same color and depth in this toner

JLP · Jan 15, 2007

Agree to the base being more ivory, when i was comparing last night the paper was still not completely dry. Now there's more difference between the two, the Fomatone is also more brown in color than the PWT and it curls like crazy. The PWT dries almost flat.
No experience with toning yet but take your words for it. Stocking Forte may be the only alternative for now.

jan

AlanC · Jan 15, 2007

What about Ilford Warmtone fibre paper? Bright white base & warm tones especially in Ilford Harman warmtone developer. Great stuff!

Alan Clark

timeUnit · Jan 15, 2007

Ilford WT is not on a neutral white base. It's cream too...

JLP · Jan 15, 2007

Alan, my experience with Ilford warmtone is good but i would not call that a bright white base!

jan

Curt · Jan 15, 2007

What, where, how, who, HUH? Is Nuance a what? What else, under what name is. .. .. . Where can I find something called, anything, but is Nuance paper?

Nuance is what under another name?

Thanks in advance.

Question: What or who is the "C" in JandC?
I miss them, who ever they are.

Where can I get 620 roll film for my Agfa folder? It's mint and new and probably has never seen more than a half dozen rolls of film. What a shame!

AlanC · Jan 15, 2007

TimeUnit,

When did you last buy Ilford WT ? It used to be cream but it is white now.

Alan Clark

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 15, 2007

Nuance is Efke Emaks graded, and in the past has been Cachet Expo RF and Maco Expo RF. The Nuance grading scheme of "Soft," "Normal," and "Hard" correspond to 2, 3, and 4, respectively for Expo RF. I'm not sure how the Emaks grades are labeled.

Cecil · Jan 15, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
Nuance is Efke Emaks graded, and in the past has been Cachet Expo RF and Maco Expo RF. The Nuance grading scheme of "Soft," "Normal," and "Hard" correspond to 2, 3, and 4, respectively for Expo RF. I'm not sure how the Emaks grades are labeled.

My boxes of Nuance "Hard" are also labeled G3 on the box. According to fotokemica.com, Emaks comes in grades 1, 2 and 3. However Freestyle now has Emaks in grades 3 and 4. I am totally confused!

David A. Goldfarb · Jan 15, 2007

Yes, J&C revised the grading system on the grounds that Emaks formerly grade 2 seemed softer than other grade 2 papers, and grade 3 seemed more like 2.5. The thing to keep in mind is that it comes in three grades, and within each scheme, they bear the same relation to each other.

Personally, I use more of the Expo grade 2/Nuance Soft (which has never actually been sold under the Nuance label, as far as I can tell, except as a special order) than Expo grade 3/Nuance Normal, and I rarely use the hardest grade.

Curt · Jan 15, 2007

Thanks David and others, I didn't even know that Freestyle had it, and I was just looking this morning at their site, I was looking for a VC paper. Can I get away with a single graded paper in two or three grades or do I need a variable contrast paper? Three out of five grades with developer options, probably yes. I tried the Nuance and thought it was the closest to the older papers I had used. I like the look better than Varicon which requires a red safelight. I use to use Oriental Seagull in grades 2 and 3 and it fulfilled my needs, I'll have to order some and see. I only have half a box of 8x10 and 50 sheets of 11x14 Nuance left.

Curt · Jan 15, 2007

It is Varycon, not Varicon. I took a look at Freestyle and found the Emaks under misc. It sounds interesting. Please excuse my writing I need some coffee.

timeUnit · Jan 15, 2007

AlanC said:
TimeUnit,

When did you last buy Ilford WT ? It used to be cream but it is white now.

Alan Clark

Oh, sorry I might be outdated! My mistake!

I haven't used Ilford WT in years, mainly because of the cream base. It seems I have to try a box!

Thanks for the heads up!

Henning

Mark Layne · Jan 15, 2007

timeUnit said:
Oh, sorry I might be outdated! My mistake!

I haven't used Ilford WT in years, mainly because of the cream base. It seems I have to try a box!

Thanks for the heads up!

Henning

I use Multigrade WT as my primary paper. I find the warmer base enhances the warmtone and the richness of the blacks is hard to beat. Fomatone has a similar base colour but browner blacks. Of course if a brilliant white base is desired it's another issue. Personally I would not opt for a brighter base on MGWT.
Mark

timeUnit · Jan 15, 2007

Ok, so it seems it's on a warmer than white base, but not exactly cream. I'll pass then.

Lee Shively · Jan 15, 2007

FWIW, Forte Polywarmtone also comes/came in an Ivory base as well as the neutral white base.

AlanC · Jan 16, 2007

Ilford WT fibre has a white base. I noticed this recently after using up all my old stock, which had a cream base. I 'phoned Ilford and spoke to a very helpful technical lady who assured me that it was not a blip, that it was now white following an enforced paper change a couple of years ago.

I have just laid the following papers alongside each other (all untoned fibre prints developed in Neutol WA) and compared their base colours in daylight and tungsten light.
Old Ilford WT
New Ilford WT
Ilford Mgd 4
Forte Polywarmtone
Fomatone

New Ilford WT, polywarmtone and Mgd 4 are all equally bright.There are differences. Polywarmtone is slightly greenish, Mgd 4 is slightly cold looking against the Ilford WT which has a hint of warmth by comparison.
But essentially all three are equally bright white.

Old Ilford WT is noticably cream by comparison.
Fomatone is even more cream.

Alan Clark

AlanC · Jan 16, 2007

I should have made clear in my last post that I compared the borders of the prints, though of course you can see the base colour in the prints themselves and this is what helps to give each print its own "look".

Alan Clark

matti · Jan 16, 2007

Thanks for all the info. It is a bit difficult with these rebranding issues.

Maybe I should try Ilford warmtone again. I do have a stash of pretty large papers, up to 40x50 cm that I can cut up.
Obviously Nuance or Efke is worth trying too.
And Foma for lith.

/matti

timeUnit · Jan 16, 2007

AlanC said:
Ilford WT fibre has a white base. I noticed this recently after using up all my old stock, which had a cream base. I 'phoned Ilford and spoke to a very helpful technical lady who assured me that it was not a blip, that it was now white following an enforced paper change a couple of years ago.

I have just laid the following papers alongside each other (all untoned fibre prints developed in Neutol WA) and compared their base colours in daylight and tungsten light.
Old Ilford WT
New Ilford WT
Ilford Mgd 4
Forte Polywarmtone
Fomatone

New Ilford WT, polywarmtone and Mgd 4 are all equally bright.There are differences. Polywarmtone is slightly greenish, Mgd 4 is slightly cold looking against the Ilford WT which has a hint of warmth by comparison.
But essentially all three are equally bright white.

Old Ilford WT is noticably cream by comparison.
Fomatone is even more cream.

Alan Clark

Thanks for this clarification! I will try Ilford WT as a alternative to PWT.

Best,
Henning

Alternatives to Forte papers - Adox?

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Alternatives to Forte papers - Adox?

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